Worst Grading Companies

Which is absolute bullcrap...
You show me an ICG graded coin, and I do think twice, you show me ANY graded coin and I think twice. You simply cannot rely on a company to grade a coin for you, you have to know how to grade them yourself, and even then you still think twice!
ICG does over grade coins, so does ANACS, PCGS, NGC, XYZ, they all over grade coins at one point or another!

 

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And just how many coins shows have you been to? If my memory serves me correctly I think you mentioned going to your first coin show last month. Who exactly rated their seminars as some of the best? As someone who was a newbie to this forum 2 months ago you have a habit of making statements you want others to believe are factual and the words of a seasoned collector but anyone who has read some of your posts knows you are still learning just like some other newbies like me. I appreciate some of the info you have posted but the rest is questionable based on your level of collecting experience.

 

Finally someone said what I have been thinking.

 

Roflmao
I have never heard of their seminars, and the last two shows I was at where ICG was there they didntmanage 10 submissions.
And if you gave me any slab than ngc or PCGS and anacs, I automatically treat the coin 1 grade lower since other companies grading are inconsistent.
Many dealers will say the same.
I do not trust IGC until they're standards improve and their grading is correct and consistent.

 

Over-graded Or New Standards?

Based on my experience of handling thousands TPG "high value" coins, you are absolutely correct in your opinion that all "top tier" TPG graders occasionally err, both overgrading and undergrading. Having stated that, in my opinion, ICG is generally far more consistent than TPG currently rated higher. I believe, until relatively recently, as stated in the CDN newsletter, ICG had higher resale value than the 2nd rated TPG. I have seldom seen what I would consider to be an improperly graded coin certified by ICG. My caveat is that I, as many others, do not observe a good portion of the coin types spectrum. However, I'm concerned when it appears grading standards have changed so, that an expensive flawed Gold coin can be rated PR70 by a top tier TPG. CAVEAT EMPTOR! The purchasing public probably should be more diligent when acquiring coins, and not rely solely upon an occasionally poor TPG "opinion", supported by a seemingly poor redress policy, that may adversely affect their "investment". Thanks for your, what I would consider, "objective post". :thumb:

 

What the????

If I'm looking to get MS or PR70 coins graded, SGS NEVER Let's me down whereas the other fellows do!

 

ICG clearly does not get as much business as PCGS OR NGC and companies like SGS SUCK! Your coin is MS-60 but who cares it is gonna be an MS-70 for 5 bucks extra!
Introducing our ULTRA-CRAP Grading! Your coin is cleaned but if you want us to tell you that when you can clearly tell, 15 bucks! The previous about ULTRA-CRAP was a joke!

 

As always, I have to re-read your bolded posts that never have paragraphs and always have improper spacing and grammatical errors to understand your point. Are you actually saying that ICG is "far" more consistent than NGC? Now let me understand this. You are claiming that you your experience has led you to handle thousands of "high value" coins and that of these "high value" coins, you seldom find an ICG coin that is improperly graded!

I will actually agree with you but not because ICG is a top tier grading company with strict standards and established consistency. The reason I agree is because you rarely find a "high value" coin in an ICG holder. If you search Heritage's auction archives you will find that over 100,000 NGC and PCGS coins have been sold for $1K+. I assume that choosing the $1K mark to define "high value" is acceptable. In the same search, 2,260 coins valued over $1K have been graded by ICG and sold by Heritage. If we look further, 606 of those coins are gold double eagles. The majority of those double eagles are MS62 or below which means they have very little numismatic value and the value is intrinsic.

The majority of the purchasing public does not have the grading skills to challenge the proficiency of the professional graders at either NGC or PCGS. The simple fact is that their opinion is "far" more accurate and consistent than that of the ordinary collector. I don't recommend blindly accepting the TPG grade, but for a collector to rely solely on his own opinon because of percieved inconsistencies with the grades assigned by the TPG's is in a word, FOOLISH!

BTW, only 44 of the 2,260 ICG coins are worth more than $10K. Talk about rare!

 

It seems rare to find a valuable coin in an ICG holder then! My point I guess is which company is the worst. ICG just doesn't handle that many coins it seems.

 

Well, I always thought Rich's posts were written pretty darn good, I too reread them twice, but I always understand them, and I think he is one of the forums best members when it comes to writing out a sentence, although sometimes, even his sentences are over my head! (Which might be a good thing!)

Anyway, I think you have a point as well Paul, I still cannot call ICG the worst though. I can also agree with your point about ICG not grading enough high value coins, because people don't trust their grading, so why send to them? If you do buy a high value coin from ICG, and lets say you don't even know how to grade, you cross at PCGS, and somehow, that ICG MS62 is now a PCGS AU58, well you just lost money.
Still not enough to call them the worst though, in my book anyway.

 

And you have a habit of flamign my posts, i think you like me cause you seem like a stalker?

 

Good job not even addressing his post.
If you are tired of him flaming you so much, start listening to topics of things you know nothing about instead of saying things that aren't true about said topic.

 

Gentlemen, lets not ignite this. I can not see how anyone could be a stalker on a forum, following your posts and answering is not like following you home from school, it is more like you offering rides to anyone who wishes. Sometimes you get what you want as an answer to your post, and sometimes not. This is true for everyone, me included, but you have to be able to defend your answer if you wish with solid references. You can ignore any specific person and not see their post if you wish, and as is true for everyone, you can report any post you think is over the line, and moderators will check it. Sometimes it is , and is deleted, and other times we don't consider it as such, and do not. A person doesn't have to answer any post if they have no good answer. That is true for everyone. Peace.

Jim

 

I don't know how it came about... perhaps the poster went back and self-edited, or maybe not, but there was indeed some "editing" involved in a recent post.

I concur with the ideal that folks need to defend their answer with solid references, as this is a great forum to learn stuff from.

 

Many people type faster than their cognitive brain thinks, letting the Limbic region ( emotional brain) do it. It is easy to forget that thousands of people might read your post, and perhaps even your children may some day. There is some anonymous aspect with having screen names, but if you are a member long enough and post enough, it is hard to hide your true identity.

Jim

 

Ok let's keep this on an adult level ok?

 

Another Supporter With An Opinion

I respect your opinion, and your right to differ, but it's apparent to me that you sometime read other than literal. I personally own many ICG certified Gold coins in mint state condition, have found them to be very consistent, and I believe, a quality "sight seen" higher grade "value coin". I've found their high end (i.e. PR69-70, MS69-70) coins to be ideal candidates for removal/re-submission. I personally haven't generally submitted to them, as I would rather acquire their relatively economically priced products. I'm pleased that others submit some quality coins to this firm, and I can advantageously purchase same at a discount. Anyone with a reasonable understanding of the Numismatic "Industry" knows why there are 3 TPG rated above ICG, and it isn't necessarily because of grading. I believe you'll find that ICG currently has a CDN published higher average than ANACS, and until relatively recently higher than NGC. I may misunderstand the reasons for these incongruities, but it appears that others may also appreciate something about ICG.

I'm pleased that individuals as yourself are aggressively supporting other TPG, affronting those having "broad shoulders" who disagree. I can also factually support my opinions, and select the proper venue/method for disclosure/advocacy. I trust that you will continue to aggressively sell your understandings, and you can expect that others may see facets unrevealed to you, disclosing same, hopefully with patience/tact for proper enlightenment.

We both can agree that it's highly unlikely to find a high price ICG holdered coin in a Heritage Auction, but I suspect some of the new holdered coins were once certified by ICG. It seems that there are non-confrontational intelligent individuals who recognize relative quality/bargains, who are satisfied with others' choices.

As the husband said to the disapproving wife who objected to the termination of their horse, "that's two". PEACE!!

 

Just curios who is some of the best, besides PCGS,and NGC??? I own some Accu-grade, ICG PCGS and NGC! What about SGS is that a good Grading Co. !

 

It would be my opinion that you should not purchase coins from SGS unless you have them in hand and can grade them yourself. I have found most of their coins to be highly over graded.
With ALL my purchases from photos I personally stick with PCGS and NGC with an occasional purchase of ICG and ANACS with good photos. I will purchase other grading companies coins if I have them in hand to grade myself.

 

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean

I take from this that you think their modern graded coins are worthless but no more so than those of the other TPG's. I don't doubt that you own many certified gold coins in ICG holders. I already established that one of their best markets is lower mint state grade double eagles. Since I don't collect double eagles, I will believe you when you say that they are just as consistent as NGC & PCGS. I am also happy that you are able to obtain these coins at a discount.

I have a very good understanding of the numismatic industry and have no idea what you are trying to say.

I am not supporting any TPG, rather I am supporting the truth. And the truth is that ICG's grading standards are not comparable to that of NGC or PCGS across almost every series of coin. I am glad you found a niche (double eagles) in which they excel, but you are projecting their success in that small area to everything else. You do this even though you admitted that you have very little experience with their grading outside your niche.

Lastly, your post is riddled with little jabs that I assume were designed to bait me. I don't play those little games. This is an internet forum and it is too easy to develop misunderstandings with the constant use of subtlety. I prefer to communicate plainly using prose that contains very little ambiguity. This may cause you to view me as confrontational but my intentions are not personal. I simply disagree with you about a subject that I think is important. My fear is that some people without the same level of understanding of numismatics will believe your opinion and purchase ICG graded coins with the same confidence that they would PCGS or NGC graded coins. Anyone who does this will be making a significant financial mistake.