Dear All, I am planning on developing software for managing my world coin inventory. If it turns out well, I could potentially package a commercial version of it. As part of the software, I need to use various coin reference systems - Krause, Yeoman etc. Would I be infringing copyright by using these reference IDs in my software? I'm almost certain I can't use their description/notes for the coin. Any ideas? I would really appreciate some help here. The project is a non-starter if I'm stepping on some huge toes Cheers, Morondrill
There would be nothing wrong with using other resources strictly for your own personal use, but if you decided to produce a commercial version, I would strongly recommend talking to an attorney who is very knowledgeable with copyright law. Chris
"Fair use" is an extremely complex rule, for the most part undefined in the copyright statutes, and the subject of many, many court decisions. As a non-intellectual property attorney, I can't stress enough cpm's emphasis on "very knowledgeable".
If you have some sort of page where you list the publishers/authors/editors of said publications that you may use you should be able to cover your tracks. You also should have no problem as Chris said, if this is for YOUR OWN USE and you do not attempt to make a profit from it. When you try to start making a profit off of it then you run the risk of being cited for copyright infringement. Also, if you are just using the reference numbers, then I don't think you would be infringing on their copyrights. Copyright, and fair use as the above poster said is, and can become incredibly complicated. Don't make me pull out the books, but I will if you want.
Using reference numbers such as KM #29 or Fr #233 is not copyright infringement. If it was every auction house and dealer in the country would be out of business overnight due to the suits. Rather obviously they are not. But that's about as far as you can go.
Microsoft was recently nailed for infringing on a copyright for another company's creation of programming that is a part of the MS Excel program, and can no longer market the progam unless they create their own progamming for it. If you use any part of a copyrighted item for commercial use, you have to obtain the copyright holder's permission, which is usually going to be in the form of a negotiated contract providing for financial compensation to the copyright holder.
I am not sure about Krause coin numbers, but Scott has defended ( not always successfully) their copyright on Scott # to refer to stamp identification, both US and Foreign. Scott sued Krause over the use of the number in Krause's stamps album publications but eventually settled with Krause for their use. I don't have a Krause in front of me, but I would be surprised if they don't have a copyright of their numbering system. Another example of a software company using Scott's numbers in a product
I agree with Doug's basic concept~ the idea that someone can copy identifying numbers of coins or stamps is wrong. Scott publishing has, in general, been mute on individual use, such as in single sales or advertising. Where they get tough is on publications and software. I was in that field more strongly years ago, so I am not familiar with any recent events. Since Scott did develop the numbering system in reference to specific stamps, I can understand their logic, but still think it is inconsistent and wrong in general. What if the Sheldon grading system P-01 through MS-70 was copyrighted, or is it ? Now if Doug was to copyright the Doug's Grading system from, "Downright awful-AAA to almost a good coin-ZZZ" he might make some money
"almost a good coin" huh ? I gotta remember that one But tell me - what do I call it when I see a coin that makes me go WOW !!!! ? To the subject at hand. Pretty much every coin book there is uses former classification numbers that were developed by somebody else. You have Davenport numbers, Friedberg numbers, Krause numbers, Spink numbers, Delmonte numbers, Duplessy numbers, Ciani numbers - the list is endless. And in all of the books all of the other numbers are used. Same for every coin catalog ever printed. Every auction catalog ever printed, and a great many dealer's 2x2's. Yet none of these people are being sued nor have they been sued in the past - ever. Now I had not ever heard of this Scott company you mention Jim, but I feel reasonably certain that they are the exception rather than the rule.
Anything that is copyrighted is a very complicated system, Duke, but I think I just realized that you were being sarcastic?
That would be a TOT on your grading scale........That old thing?........."I'll tell you what. I'll do you a favor and take it off your hands for $20." Chris
Perfect answer. Attributions as to a catalog are always allowed as fair use of the source document. These reference books are printed for the purpose of attribution, and using their attribution system is allowed. However, mintage figures, graphical descriptions, estimated values, photos of the coins, are all copyrighted and cannot be used without their permission except in very limited instances while noting the source. Like Doug said, for your database you can use the commonly industry used KM number, and any other numbering system commonly used, but no other information from the KM publications. P.S. Doesn't KM, (or did they) cross reference Craig numbers themselves? I thought I remembered that. If they did, they would be hard put to argue against you cross referencing them.
I would be very surprised if Scott actually successfully defended such a position. A company can make a claim all they want, but actual enforcement is another thing. I would suspect if KM did settle with Scott it was simply because it was cheaper to settle than to fight it. Our legal system is pretty messed up this way, encouraging settlement rather than fighting due to high costs of all of the lawyers. One caveat would be if you are making a product that is substantively the same as which they sell, then infringement could be an issue. If the OP was making a database product, but KM already has one that it sells, then it wouldn't be fair use. That is the only instance I could see that would be a problem.
Well I'll tell ya what - you guys that have only been around here a few years or less have missed out. There used to be lots of coins posted that made me go WOW !!! Not so much anymore :so-sad: I wish those days would come back :yes:
