Can Mint Employee's Buy Coins Hot off the line?

I was wondering if anyone knew the answer to this. I am sure security at mint facilities is tight but if a mint employee want to pay face value for some fresh coins could he/she? I know there are numerous stories about employees stealing rare or unauthorized issues (1964-d dollar) but what about legitimate purchases.

 

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As far as I know or heard of, right now there is no authorization for even exchange of ANY us minted coins. The employee's must use the same channels, (Mint Gift Shop, on-line US Mint ordering, etc.) as the general public does for getting uncirculated coins. This is especially true at the West Point Mint where silver and gold bullion coins are struck.

The 1964 Peace dollars were not stolen, but speculation that earlier year date Peace dollars were turned in instead of the 1964's in order to satisfy the weight and count. Supposedly the mint employees had the ability to purchase these Peace dollars directly from the Mint in a pre-sale, but every thing about this story has yet to produce a single coin.

 

show me one pcgs certified 1964d peace dollar in my hand that is authenticated and is genuine and ill give you my 1909 s vdb or 1955 ddo

 

that would be impossible. if pcgs graded that coin, they could possibly face legal troubles. so i am sure if anyone turned one into them, they would call the feds.

i see no reason to either believe they are out there or not. it would be easier to believe a few escaped. at this point we know they did in fact mint them, so the possibility one or a few escaped is possible.

 

I have no idea but common sense tells me no. Imagine being able to buy errors and sell them on the secondary market. TC

 

NGC graded and slabbed the Langbord 1933 $20s. They had a press release about it on their site for a day or so; you can still find evidence of it if you look hard enough.

 

Just think if mint employees good cherry pick coins. Like a REAL first strike from a die, picked before it was ejected into a bin and banged around - great source for ms/pr 70 coins.

 

The Aluminum cent in the ICG slab shown by Doug is no longer in that slab. It was crossed to a PCGS slab and is now a MS-63 I believe. So yes they WOULD slab a 64-D peace if it was submitted.

Today there is no way for the employees to get newly struck coins other than the way the general public can. That has not always been the case. Back before the 1940's they had a cash window where you could go to get the latest coins, and back before 1873 you could bring in silver or gold, deposit it and get immediate payment in new coins. But even in those cases the coins would not have been "Hot off the press". Due to required accounting requirements the metal had to be accounted for each step of the way, from the vaults to the melter, the melter to the roller with planchets and scrap being checked. the coiner had to account for the planchets received and it had to equal the mistruck an the coins turned over to the cashier. If you were responsible you weren't going to allow someone to mess with them. "You just wait until they've been turned over to the Cashier."

 

So 1873 was when they repealed "personal minting" as well? When the minted opened you were allowed to deposit silver or gold, and have that metal coined for no fee. The mint, being short of money, always tried to get you to trade it for preminted coins for a small fee instead. I was wondering when both practices stopped.

 

No I got my date wrong. The end of the free coinage of silver was 1853 not 1873. (I'm not sure but I believe free coinage of gold may have lasted until 1933.)

Actually when the mint first opened they preferred you to leave you metal and WAIT to get your coins. The fee was actually to discourage you from asking for immediate payment. The reason was because until 1837 the Mint did not have a bullion fund and could not go out into the market to buy gold or silver to creat coins on the governments account. So the Mint never had any stock of coins to use for immediate payment for deposits. Instead they had to dip into stocks of coin that didn't belong to them but which instead belonged to another depositor (Usually the Bank of the United States). After 1837 the mint got their bullion fund and so they then had coins for immediate payment and the fees were reduced. But if you were willing to wait coinage was still free.

In 1853 was when free coinage of silver ended. The act of Feb 12th 1853 reduced the weight of the half dime through half dollar, and reduced their legal tender status from unlimited to no more than $5 in any one transaction. Silver dollars could still be struck for free, but since their weight was not reduced each silver dollar would contain $1.04 worth of silver. That final free coinage of silver window did close, partially in 1873 after which you could only have the silver coined into Trade dollars, and then in 1878 it was cut off completely. (After 1876 the depositor also had to sign an affidavit that they would export the Trade dollars.)

 

It's been awhile back, less than a year after ICG slabbed it. Did some searching, it was two months after ICG slabbed it and shortly before Sept 26 2005.

Act of April 2 1792 (The law that established the mint.)
Section 14 first sentence
That it shall be lawful for any person or persons to bring to the said mint gold and silver bullion, in order to their being coined; and that the bullion so brought shall be there assayed and coined as speedily as may be after the receipt thereof, and that free of expense to the person or persons by whom the same shall be brought.

Sec 14 DOES provide for a fee of 1/2 of 1% if the depositor wants immediate payment rather than waiting for his bullion to be coined

No, Act of Feb 21 1853 Sec 5 States that no deposits for coinage into half dimes through half dollars shall hereafter be received except from the treasurer of the Mint. (note that this does not apply to dollar coins.)

Sec 6 allows deposits of gold or silver by private citizens for casting into bars either pure or of standard fineness. In that case the depositor will be charged for parting or refining if needed plus a fee of 1/2 of 1%.

Act of Feb 12 1873
Sec 20 provides for the deposit of gold for coinage (deposit must be at least $100.)
Sec 21 provides for the deposit of silver for either bars or Trade dollars. (since the standard dollar was no longer included in the law silver could not be deposited for them.)
Sec 25 fees for coinage of gold (so gold coinage is no longer free), or making bars, or silver into Trade dollars. Gold is 1/5 of 1%. Fee for trade dollars not to exceed the actual cost of any assaying, refining, or the cost of the copper alloy if the deposit is above standard fineness. So actual costs, no other fees.

And of course the Presidential gold recall order ended the conversion of gold into coins or bars in 1933.

 

That would be a pretty decent perk, getting to pick up coins at face value seconds after they were minted...

 

Now that the coins are certified and serial numbered, they can now be inventoried, introduced and referenced as evidence as individual coins. Slick move on the part of the US Gov't.

 

I'll IM you with my address. I'd like the 1955 ddo. (BOY! This Photoshop thing is really paying off!)




Ben (How did I do? Looks close, huh?)

 

You can tell it was shot raw and not through plastic, also your rims are ever so slightly off. Good work tho.

 

Thanks! I love to work with Photoshop and had to try this. But it's not a raw coin. I found a really nice photo and worked on it. It really it is a slabbed coin and I didn't have to do anything to the rims at all.

I took a photo of a slabbed MS66 - 1934 Peace Dollar and went through the coin fixing most of the spots and scratches on the coin and slab so that I could make it a MS69. (I think it's under graded, I may send it back and see if can hit MS70. ) With a perfect coin face, I then used Photoshop to change only 1 thing on the coin. At first I tried to pull the 6 off of a 1926, but couldn't get the light right. Then I tried to turn the 3 into a 6 but it still didn't work. Then it hit me. All I had to do is take the 9 and invert it! Once I had the 6, I moved it into place and I now had a 1964 Peace dollar.

I changed up the legend to say that it was a 1964-D and changed the grade to look like it was a MS69 and not a MS66. Then I changed the other info so that it didn't match the 1934 and worked the 6 so that it was as close as I could get it to a real one.

The only other thing was the Series number of the coin. I figured that giving it a .1 after the original series number would work for now. If we ever see one, I'm sure it will have its own Series.

I've learned that I can NEVER trust a photo again. I did Motor Sports Photography for a few years and fixed damage on cars. Took distracting signs off or cars that were parked and made cars that were going 20 mph or PARKED look like they were going 150! I also would take shots of cars in turns and "lift" the front wheel to look like it was going faster through the turns and did all this with good old Photoshop.

This was just a test of my Photoshop skills. I think it looks okay, but I see something I need to fix, so I'll have to change the photos.

Ben