Anyone ever seen a MS70 Cent?

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I agree. Back in th late 80's it was very unusual for the major services to grade ANYTHING better than MS-65. Back then if a coin was submitted and it graded as a 66, heaven forbid a 67, it tended to be announced as straight news in the pages of Coin World and Numismatic News. Back then MS-65 was THE investment grade because you just weren't going to find anything any better. Today MS-65 is practically considered to be "low end' material. I see all the 67, and 68 classic material available today and I wonder "Where were all these coins twenty years ago?" You can't expect me to believe that everyone was holding onto them and hiding them while they sent in their 64's and 65's. The answer is todays 67's and 68's were the 65's and 66's twenty years ago.

I remember in the Morgans, during the first two years of PCGS and NGC you used to see a lot of 60's, 61's, 63's, and very few 64's or 65's. Then all of a sudden the 60's and 61's disappeared and everything was 62 - 65 with the 64's exploding. Today the 62's have diappeared to a large extent and most Morgans are now 63 - 67.

 

YUM! Show me some pics brother!

 

That's actually a very good point. I've seen a number of prooflike lincolns in recent years, but no hint at all of any of them getting a prooflike grade. Wonder how long it will take NGC to figure this out (not expecting PCGS to bother...)

 

When coin dealers first started using Sheldon's system, a 70 was a theoretical grade. Anything that anyone grades a 70 to me is total crap. 70 is supposed to be utterly perfect. Give me the coin and under my binocular microscope I will find a flaw, guaranteed.

I had little use for US grading, but now have none. The day I saw my first MS70 holder I knew the grading services had jumped the shark.

 

But that is not the definition of MS-70. 70 is NOT supposed to be utterly perfect. Here is PCGS's definition:

 

When the services adopted the 70 they "changed" the definition. I has to have no flaws under a 5X magnification. So if you have to go more then 5X with your microscope to find the flaw it doesn't count.

 

The closest that I have ever gotten to an MS-70 or PF-70 on a cent would be my 2009 Proof Set First Day of Issue Four Coin Lincoln Cent Set, graded PF-70DCAM by ANACS, set #2305 of 9972. Here's some pics:

 

Fair enough, though I don't remember them stating that back in the 80's when it started. I still remember PCGS and NGC stating that 70 was purely theoretical, that such a coin cannot exist. But that was when they didn't grade modern coins either.

I still believe a flaw could be found using 5x power. I mean, the flan has to be perfect, the die perfect, the strike, everything. I just don't believe anything mechanically made can be perfect. The problem is that once a 70 was graded, another coin that was just a good, (though still not theoretically perfect), also qualified.

Maybe I am just too old and grumpy for all of this overgrading business. And Doug is right, a 66 or 67 ANYTHING used to be front page news, now those coins are cracked out and come back 68 or 69. Grade inflation is completely out of hand. Remember, MS63 is supposed to be "ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of strike and appearance, with most coins not achieveing this grade". That what it originally was.

 

I agree with you 100%. Its all about the $$$. Everyone thrives for the best, so pride in grading is long gone. People are buying up the 69&70's reguardless if their really 66's or 67's. As long as they're selling and the dollars are rolling in, thats all that matters...

 

For you information, there are two Wreath Cents from 1793 which were considered 70 coins by the inventor of the scale. EAC grading is notoriously harder than TPG grading. The Halls-Beckworth-French S-6 and the S-11a from the Brand Hoard.

 

i think if you need more than 10x to find a error on a coin then.. common thats ardently looking for problems

 

I believe my main point before was that the TPG'ers had listed as descriptions of the grades that most uncirculated coins would not grade as high as MS63. Twenty years ago most MS coins were 61, 62, with anything higher really a nice coin. Did the MS67 coins nowadays simply not being graded then? Now when they grade modern coins, what is the lowest grade EVER received? MS68? Maybe a really crummy coin is a 67?

I am with Doug that there seems to have been serious grade inflation, therefor I do not trust or believe MS grades anymore. Everyone else can, its your right.

 

or date or condition

 

The absolute truth! ....as always my friend.

 

Well said Doug! :smile

 

How much would a 1981 Ms-70 SGS certified penny be worth?

 

here is the link for the famous PCGS 2003 MS70 that got $13,500 on Teletrade but i think that PCGS bought it back and the number it's now a MS69. does anyone know if this is true if PCGS bought it ? Snowman

http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2266&lot=1018

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa51/pennyfinder24/2003PCGSMS70RD.jpg