Altered?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by satootoko, May 20, 2004.

  1. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    All my resources agree that in the joined character type (6 o'clock position) of this 1876 20 sen coin (Y#24) the bottom line of the left character should continue to become the center horizontal line of the right character, instead of the joined top shown on this one. Does that joinder look altered to anyone else?[​IMG]

    BTW the catalog value of the joined type is several times the value of the separate character type, and the seller is in Hong Kong.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  3. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    Well from the photo's I would say that they are joined. Could this be a die crack though?
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Based on the pic hard to say for sure. But I'd pass.
     
  5. pog

    pog New Member

    satootoko, i cant help with the joining sorry. i am interested in th coin though. what do the characters say? what does the dragon symbolize? what is the value of 20 sen compared to us coinage. thank you.
     
  6. cdcda

    cdcda New Member

    Looking at Standard Catalog of World Coins, 3rd Edition, it shows an illustration that indicates that the bottom line of the first character should come up at a slant and become the center line of the second character. The illustration clearly indicates how it should appear.

    On your photo, it looks like the top of the two characters are joined and it does not look "right".
     
  7. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Reading from right to left the first three Kanji (Japanese name for Chinese characters) read "Dai Ni Hon" which translates as "Great Japan". The next two are "Meiji", the era name chosen by Emperor Mutsuhito for his reign, which marked the beginnings of modern Japan when the Imperial Family regained sovereignty from the Shoguns (Warlords). Next is "ku" or "kyu", the number 9, and finally "nen" or year. In full the date is "Meiji 9 year", which corresponds to 1876 on the western calendar.
    I'm sorry to say that I don't really know the formal significance. It does represent strength, and I am sure there is a symbolism to the pearl in it's claws, but I haven't a clue as to what that is.[​IMG]
    The contemporary value was 20¢, as the silver yen had the same composition as a U.S. dollar, and there were 100 sen to the yen. The sen was abolished as a circulating denomination during the American occupation, in 1946, by which time it had become essentially valueless. The official exchange rate was ¥360 = $1, and the purchasing power of ¥1 for local goods and services was roughly equivalent to the purchasing power of 1¢ in the States. Example: When haircuts in the PX barbershops in Japan were 25¢, haircuts in a Japanese barbershop were ¥25. For another nickle (or ¥5) you could get your shoes shined too. Of course by the mid-late '50s those prices had gone up a few cents/yen :D and today at ~¥112 to the dollar, life on the Japanese economy can be very expensive indeed. :(
     
  8. pog

    pog New Member

    thank you satootoko. very interesting indeed..

    one more question. are these coins in series? and if so what would be the cost to assemble? also what is a good book to purchase that explains about these coins or set of coins. thanx again.
     
  9. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Japan's first struck coinage was minted from Meiji 3 (1870) to Meiji 45 (1912) in a dozen denominations. Most Meiji coins have a dragon on the obverse. The were minted in copper, silver and gold.

    Who knows? [​IMG] Depending on denomination, metal and grade they are currently cataloged at anywhere from pennies to $100,000+. Although Krause values an 1887 ¥20 at only $550 in Fine grade, the lowest grade of the same coin is listed at ¥220,000 in the JNDA catalog - about $1,970 at current exchange rates; and I have never seen one offered for sale at less than $2,000. :mad:

    However, without gold, a reasonably complete type set in VF or better can probably be assembled over a period of years for a few thousand dollars. Very few U.S. dealers carry a significant stock of Japanese coins, and those that do usually have mostly post World War I material. There are 132 lots in the upcoming Heritage auction, but many types rarely show up in the major auctions, or on EBay, so it would be just about impossible for even Bill Gates to assemble a complete set quickly. :p

    The standard English language references are Japanese Coinage by Jacobs & Vermuele, and Modern Japanese Coinage by Cummings. They are out of print, but 1st and 2nd edition copies of both frequently show up on EBay. In fact, Mike Cummings would probably autograph a copy of his book for you if you bought it from his company, which sells on EBay as "MPCCOINS". ;)

    Another good resource is the annual Japanese Numismatic Dealers Association catalog. Although it is mostly in Japanese, key information about Japanese coins, such as their composition and Japanese market valuations (in yen of course) is in English, and there are drawings to highlight the differences in many common varieties. The 2004 edition is also currently available on EBay most of the time.

    I just acquired a German book on modern Japanese coinage, but I haven't studied it enough to know whether it will give me any new insights or information.

    There are, of course, a host of excellent books on various aspects of Japanese coinage, both modern and ancient, written in Japanese. If you would like those titles, PM me, as I doubt that many people on the forum would find the information interesting. :D
     
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