My Beef with Grading Companys....

I'm sure you've probably seen commercials on TV for McDonald's or Burger King or some other fast food business. They always show a photo of a big fat juicy sandwich and their posters on the wall show a perfect sandwich with fresh lettuce, crisp bacon and plump tomato.

When did you ever get one that looked just like the poster? When did you ever get one that wasn't squashed to half the thickness shown in the photo? Never? Neither have I!

Chris

 

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I was always told don't believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. If I make a purchase then it is up to me to decide if the price I am paying is fair. When you send in a coin you can pay 10 bucks and they will look for the error and cite it. Yes I think coin grading companies charge too much but until people stop using them the price will stay the same or rise supply and demand. Ice

 

I'll have to agree with him on this point. When I go and buy a new suit or a tv or even a car for that matter, I assume it is new. If it turns out to be slightly used or returned or whatever I think I have a gripe. There is some responsibility on the seller to accurately describe an item they are selling.
And we all know that many do not.

Lack

 

In this case, it is actually possible that the MS coins have been used and the AU coin may be new. You can get MS coins from circulation and a coin stored in a drawer to have cabinet friction and be called AU. And that is the easy part, when you get 5 experts saying MS and 5 saying AU, then what do you do?

Oh, and ice, I hope that is not what you were told "don't believe none" is the same as "believe all".

 

I generally agree with your point, and it makes good sense for people to take responsibility for their actions and mistakes. There has surely been a decrease of this in our society over the years. However, there are circumstances in which people are intentionally duped or conned or victimized. For example, a guy approaches an elderly couple and offers to clean out their chimney for $100. He presents a valid license, paperwork and insurance, etc., and the couple agrees to have him do it. He then climbs up on the roof and enjoys a few beers, works on his tan, and collects the $100. Later that year, the fireplace backs up and the couple realizes they were taken for a ride. IMO, the criminal deserves at least some if not most of the blame. TC

 

Doug I agree with you about the personal responsibility. Too many people (like Mr. Stern above) believe any real or imagined misfortune must be the fault of another and they are entitled to some kind of compensation. It drives me nuts actually. But your example of the AU/BU coin is a poor example. Look at it this way, assume the TGP was correct and it is AU. The buyer misgraded the coin as BU. The seller misgraded the coin as BU. They both did the exact same thing. Why would the personal responsibility you say the buyer should except not apply to the seller as well? They both made the exact same mistake.

 

It actually is illegal to show that fat juicy burger and give you something else - the laws are simply enforced so rarely that many unscrupulous businesses take advantage of it. During the 1960's and 70's when people like Nader were more active, many consumer protection laws were passed and enforced. Unfortunately, over the next 40 years, as businesses increased their control over government, enforcement dwindled. One of my favorites is the Taco place that shows twice as much meat as you get. So, sometimes I'll ask if the taco looks like that picture and usually I get one that does. I think most of us have become so accustomed to not getting what we're supposed to, that we just lay down and take the beating.

 

It is only illegal to show a product that is not what is for sale. Just because they make the best possible looking burger for the ad, does not make it illegal. If they showed cheese or bacon on it and it does not come with cheese or bacon would it be illegal. "Puffery" is allowed, it always has been.

 

They both made the same mistake, and lets assume its an honest mistake. There is no deception, the seller did not warranty that a TPG service would grade the coin a certain grade. The seller had ample opportunity to inspect the goods, so there is no deception at all. It is the buyer's responsibility to inspect all goods prior to acceptance, unless he has a contract otherwise. In that situation, he could offer to buy the coin PROVIDED it graded at or above 60 from a TPG'er. Failing that, he looked at the coin, and bought it. Even if the seller KNEW the coin was AU, he still gave the buyer a chance to inspect it. The buyer cannot claim, "I didn't know any better". That is not an acceptable defense.

Sorry to be legal, but those are the legal facts, and I agree. A grade is simply an estimation as to a coins condition, not a written guarantee. If the buyer wants a guarantee, he should obtain one before buying it.

 

True to a degree. They can make the same slice of tomato or lettuce look better/fresher in the pic and show the burger cooked perfectly, but they can't give you half the meat shown. And, they can't show a taco that has twice the meat you actually get. Another I've seen is a one inch juicy tender New York steak on the menu and you get one of those quarter inch tough, leathery things cut from a mad cow. So, not only is the quantity misrepresented in many ads, so too is the quality.

I know this is straying from the OP’s original post, but the OP did mention beef.

 

Well...I havent submitted any buisness strike coins that werent errors yet.
Ive only handled a few errors...and Im sure theres many errors I wont be able to spot yet
for example...partial collars on the pres dollars? Ive seen pictures..but the one I have looks nothing like it.
I sent my dollar to get graded for a partial edge lettering and marked the mint error box..
and it came back with 2 errors on it...partial edge and partial collar
I just got lucky. I never noticed the partial collar

 

That's probably why it is called "fast food", and people don't want to take the time for anything better.

Chris

 

Howard,

I hope you realize that we are only trying to help you. In time, there will be many questions asked and answered that will, hopefully, result in a more meaningful appreciation of this great hobby for you.

Chris

 

I really liked your statement. I always have fun at those places saying why doesn't my burger look like the one one that add on the wall? It's not just on TV, if you look at those photos on the wall of what you ordered, then look at what you get???????????
It's all just advertising. If you were in the add buiesness, you too would say or show one thing and not worry about reality since you get paid for what you do, not what is right or real.
Regardless of what everyone is saying, TPG's are made of people, not machines. People are people. They all make mistakes, non are perfect so if you get a coin graded as AU and you think it should be MS something or other, the grader may have had a bad day with his wife and your coin suffers.

 

Back to my original point, as I know we got a little sidetracked here. If I wanted to collect errors, (you want to see errrors, try Byzantines.....it is hard for me to buy NON error coins), I would buy the standard refernces on error coins, how they are made, how to spot them, values, etc and read them over and over until the bindings wore off. Study all of the pictures and teach yourself how to quickly identify each type. Then I would go to a major show or two and sit down at a dealer that deals in errors and look at all of his stock. Then you would be the expert versus most dealers, and you would be the one who would be most knowledgeable, and maybe even send slabs back to TPG's pointing out errors that they missed.

I know you got into coin collecting to collect coins. We all did. A good book or two though, and time spent educating yourself, is the best investment you can make. Please trust me and most others here and believe a good book or two and studying will both increase your enjoyment of this hobby and make you a lot of money.

 

A coin dealer is in business and therefore considered a professional by the general public and held to a higher standard in the eyes of the law. It is also reasonable for the general public to assume a dealer conducts his business, including grading coins, in accordance with the standards of any professional organizations of which the dealer claims membership.

 

Wow. I had no idea. Even if you take just 1,000 coins per 40 hour week per EACH grader ..that's 24 coins per hour or a little over 2 minutes per coin.

Darn ..if you say "thousands" per week ..that's even LESS time per coin.

And I thought I had a pressure cooker of a job. No wonder mistakes happen, you would have to be robotic to keep up that pace.

 

Are you serious? Sure people should have personal responsibility but being gullible, naïve, or stupid is not a crime, selling something fake is. There are two parties involved in the deal; you can’t just blame one of them. If I walk through a bad part of town and get mugged or shot is it all my fault? Sure I should have had sense enough to stay out of that area but it’s not my fault somebody decided to shoot me. There are people out there purposely taking advantage of people and THEY are the ones at fault!