I am primarily a slabbed toned washie/morgan/frankie collector but from time to time I bid on other coins that might be a good investment. I do most of my bidding on teletrade and trust them totally, no complaints. A while back I got a great deal on a PCGS VF20, 20cent piece, 1875-s, not a "bad" looking coin but nothing special so put it in the safe and didn't give it much thought until a friend asked if I could give him a grade on the same coin and date since he knew I was putting a NGC submission together. I pulled out the ANA grading standards book and guesstimated his was a VF 20-30 and compared it to mine, his blew mine away. The book says VF 20 "every letter in liberty is visable" his was, mine has just the Y and that is weak so according to the book I have a VG 8. Anyone ever take them up on their guarantee to resubmit it and get the difference back? Or do I just put it back in the safe, chalk it up to "buy the coin, not the holder" and pay more attention in the future?
Your coin was probably a weak strike or a later die state, I have seen a twenty cent piece (granted it was a CC) graded by PCGS as a higher grade, I think AU or MS but I dont remember fully,but to me it looked lower VF, but it was strike that made it look like a low grade to me.
Grading by letters visible is not reliable. I have a VF IHC with no letters visible that would grade VG according to Photograde.
I doubt I would have chalked it up to strike. Didn't think they would be that bad, learned something new!
The reason you preceive the coin to be "over graded" is probably due to the fact that you were applying ANA grading guidelines to a PCGS "graded" coin. PCGS and the ANA use different grading criterium. Remember, in the end it's a subjective, qualitative science.
I'll be curious to see what my friends 20 cent piece grades at NGC, when it comes back I'll post both of them here. In all fairness the reverse looks spot on the ANA standards so perhaps the obverse die had a lot of miles on it. Thanks for the replies.
Just as an aside here, this is one of the main reasons I left American numismatics. I just hate how they can say, "weak strike, worn die, etc etc." To me all of the is total bull. Yes, all of these things happen, but in ancients we grade based upon what design is left on the coin, regardless of its cause. Many coins left the mint in the ancient world as a VF or even a F because of strike quality. I contend that many coins in the US have left the mint as AU or XF. I personally do not care WHY the details aren't there. As a coin collector, wouldn't you have a nice AU rather than a really mushy strike MS62? Or a crisp clear XF rather than an AU that is missing details due to a "worn die"? My problem is that TPG's trying to move into ancients apply their same fuzzy logic and majorly overgrade ancients. That is the reason if I happen to buy a TPG graded ancient the first place it rests is on my "deslabbing" workbench. Sorry for the rant.
I concur with your thoughts medoraman. I too don't like weak strike or worn dies, but it does happen. The problem is that the TPGs attach their grade to it and then everyone slavers over a coin with a great grade but no good details.
If you got a good deal & you like the coin, then don't let the weak Y or the grade on the slab affect your day. Note that the word LIBERTY is raised on the 20 cent shield. It is one of the first areas to wear & it does not wear as well as the incuse LIBERTY design on the other seated coinage. Also look carefully at the S mint mark. There is an S over S variety that looks like a US dollar sign $.
Its not the weak Y, its the absence of the LIBERT but I did get it for VG money so until a better one comes along I'll live with it.
I'm sorry, I read your initial post quickly and thought that only the Y was missing. I must learn to read & listen better. With only the Y showing, did you recognize that the letters of LIBERTY are raised on the shield?
In a way I disagree. If you try to sell a coin as a VF and those letters are not visible you will not be able to do it.
Danr, I agree completely. Seasnake, what is the rest of the coin like? Is it possible the rest of the coin is XF and they downranked the grade to VF due to the shield letter missing? That I may agree with. I agree that just one feature cannot be the only grading criteria, as much as we would like it to be. If the rest of the coin is VF and almost all lettering is gone I would at best grade it F. P.S. "Buy the coin, not the holder" and pay more attention in the future? is always good advice of course, but we all slip up as well.
