Spanish-Mexico 8-Reales Carlos-III 1788FM & Ferdinand VII 1809TH

I'm looking for your comments and opinions. I need to understand and reconcile with my past mistakes for me to move on...

Here's a couple of Spanish Colonial 8R Portraits/Monarch's Bust which I felt is on the borderline / questionable authenticity. I provided a link on hi-resolution for better study.

I'm trying to learn with the help of this forum. For the past two months, I'm trying to segregate which coin goes forward to my main collection, and which one would go into the counterfeit bin or secondary album.

Please share your opinions / knowledge.



1. Mo 1788 FM (KM#106.1) Armored bust of Carlos III
Diameter : 39.17mm side-to-side / 38.87 top-bottom
Weight is a bit below the normal at 26.5gms.
Obverse : The date has a lump on one of the '8'. Some fine lumps near the 'III'. Lots of circulation damage.
Reverse : is a bit better looking than what is showing and highlight, but still does look has those spots.
Edge : I found no overlap, though it exhibits a lot of circulation damage.
I'll let the picture do the talking.

Click here for hi-res photo of Obverse
Click here for hi-res photo of Reverse

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

2. Mo 1806 TH (KM#110) Armored bust of Ferdinand VII (transitional)
Diameter : 39.63mm side-to-side / 39.65mm top-bottom
Weight : 26.94gms.
This coin is darkly reddish in tone. There are some smudges that is quite evident in the hi-resolution photo.

Obverse : Details are clear including what looks like smudges
Reverse : Is the die not meticulously polished during this transitional period? Lumps on the left pillar and on the assayer is evident. Is it delamination on 'P' of HISPAN?
Edge : Overlap of the edge design 'o[]o[]o' is quite evident
Click here for hi-res photo of Obverse
Click here for hi-res photo of Reverse
Click here for his-res photo of the edges

 

I think: 8 reales 1809 of Ferdinandus VII is more rare, because he was not the official Spanish king in that time.

 

GDJMSP - I also believe that the 1788 is below the average weight despite the fact I would grade this an F (and wear is only on high points), while post-strike or circulation damage is limited on impact and not much 'delamination'.

As far as the 1809 -- my points of ponder are the lumps -- most prominently on the reverse side. This may be construed as casting 'leftovers'. I have no other similar specimen during this period, so I have no comparison. Was it possible that due to the situational/political problem of rebellion during those times that those transitional dies suffered in terms of quality?

BTW -- I forgot to state that these coins were purchased from eBay around 1999.

 

Now if there were any colonial coins with José Bonaparte on them, that would be totally cool and exceedingly rare.

you have to remember the political situation in 1809. The American colonies didn't recognize the Bonapartes' takeover of Spain, and still recognized Ferdinand as king. All colonial coins of that year and for several afterward had his face and titles on the money as a form of protest.

When he got back on the throne in 1815, that led to further revolution...

 

I have found this about spanish 8 reales.
Spanish colonial 8 Reales, it was legal tender in the US. Spanish coin, was the "8 Reales" piece. This is the famous "Piece of Eight" and later became called the "Peso".
The Spanish peso, circulated throughout the American Colonies, and States. It continued to be legal tender, until they were demonetized in 1857. Foreign money remained in widespread use in the United States until the middle of the nineteenth century. Several foreign coins were provided legal tender status in order to supplement the scanty American specie supply. A particular disadvantage was the perpetuation of non-decimal units of account, especially in New York. When the U.S. enacted a subsidiary silver standard in 1853, the expedient bases for the lawful status of foreign coin was removed. In 1857, the United States coinage was finally reformed to secure an exclusive national currency.

Also see interesting matter in this link:
http://www.chicagocoinclub.org/projects/PiN/ccp.html