In their own words from their website: "ACCUGRADE™ is the oldest grading Company in the US and Canada. The founding of ACCUGRADE goes back to 1984 when Alan Hager, noted silver dollar expert, invented slab certification for coins. ACCUGRADE paved the way for the industry of coin grading. Today, over 7 million coins have been certified, generating over $140 million in fees to the coin grading services since Mr. Hager's invention in 1985." http://www.asa-accugrade.com/about.htm Some people on other internet media have excoriated Mr. Hager for not -- in their opinion -- following ANA grading guidelines or PCGS guidelines or some other guidelines. A little time on eBay will reveal a broad range of definitions for the grades of coins. You might even find some examples that in your opinion are downright egregious, way outside what you regard as the "norm." That would apply to any grading company's work. ASA Accugrade and Mr. Hager were the FIRST to certify coins, so any "deviations from the norm" come from those who followed. Such changes in standards may be valid, but did in fact, come AFTER. Second, ASA Accugrade (and PCGS and PCI and your favorite dealer and you yourself) are under no obligation to follow the ANA, PCGS, Photograde, or any other system. If you own the DLRC Books about Buffalos or Seateds or Mercs, you know that each series (and issues within each series) must be graded on its own merits. "Known for weak strikes..." is pretty common. Furthermore, the Early American Coppers, Inc., has established a consensus of grading within that speciality that has nothing to do with other grading in US Numismatics. In addition, ancient coins are graded in several ways that (until now) had nothing to do with VF-25 or other American methods. An ancient might be graded "goodVF/choiceFine" (each side graded separately for flan and strike) and that grade is well understood by all active collectors of ancients. There are all kinds of grading "standards" out there, applied to different kinds, types, and series of numismatic items. About 15 to 20 years ago, the Federal Trade Commission cracked down on PCGS, Tulving, and other big name (and small time) companies (destroying some) and in court got them to settle by admitting in writing that GRADING IS SUBJECTIVE. In another thread, Mr. Reid Goldsborough said that Accugrade shut down websites of people who criticized them. However you interpret that, the other side of the coin is that ignorant collectors made wild and unsupportable accusations that potentially damaged the firm's good name. When the error of their ways was pointed out to them, they quit doing it. Interpret that as you want -- just as you grade coins by your own standards. Any time you put a coin in a 2x2 and write a grade on it, you are certifying it. Would you care to put your NAME on the coin as well and have everyone in the hobby judge your grading forever? And then post the results to Rec.Collecting.Coins with comments about your personal integrity? In collecting (coins or paper; ancient or modern; world or US) we always say, "Buy the coin, not the holder." That is all you can say about any service. The first slabbed coin I bought was a pretty Seated Quarter in a PCI holder. I bought it because the dealer endorsed the coin: I knew and cared nothing about grading companies, I just wanted a nice coin. Some services trade well sight-unseen. The CCE network considers only PCGS and NGC with interesting disparities between them. I know of one dealer who does well prefering to buy and sell only ANACS. Grading is subjective. The fact that grading is subjective is the only legally recognized fact about grading. Before you join the lynch mob, get the facts.
Not quite if you read what they actually claim. As you state from their own promo, they Prior to ACG...in 1976, The International Numismatic Society Authentication Bureau (INS) began certifying authenticity and grading coins for a fee. Then in 1979...ANACS, at that time the American Numismatic Association Certification Service (later sold to Amos and still called ANACS), began grading coins for a fee. They had been certifying authenticity since 1972. The standards were there (and in ANACS case codified) and applied by companies for a fee (certifying and grading) long before ACG came on the scene. AH may (or may not, I really don't know) have invented the modern slab but they by no means were the first in certifying coins.
So these "facts" that you state above came from where? The ASA website??? I have read some fruity "articles" from you Mike but this one is *almost* the fruitiest. I had to crack up when I read "potentially damaged the firm's good name"! Jason
LOL, I was wondering when this subject would rear it's ugly head here. In any event, people here are free to voice their opinion on the subject. And, if Mr. Hager want's to get the site shut down for it, he's welcome to contact the company that host's this site.... http://www.hostareus.com
Reply to Jaons, Peter, and Reid Reply to Jason, Peter, and Reid. Right. Everyone knows. We all agree. It is obvious. But when you actually begin to examine the facts, you see that whatever applies to ACG applies to all of them, to some extent, in some way, in some case, in some example. You can pick on one firm as the poor sister, but she does come from a family. There are several "small" or so-called "Third Tier" firms. Would any of them do any better if the vigilante spotlight fell on them? I remember one of the marketing people from PCI getting on RCC and getting into a big argument with everyone over just these issues. Personally -- and I mean this: PERSONALLY -- not being an active collector -- the ONLY holder I have any respect for is PCGS. And the market supports my prejudice. So, is NGC just a few shades better than Whomever You Put at the Bottom?? How about ICG's MS-70 and PROOF-70 coins? Everyone was mad about that -- and some people still are.. Again, intuitively, with big brush strokes, yes, we all know what is going on here. We all agree. I am not out in left field. I am not whacko. I am not blind, deaf, dumb or stupid. But I am tough. Standards are exactly what they are: they apply to all cases, otherwise, they are not standards. Anything you say about The Firm You Love to Hate can be said -- and has been said -- about every other certification company. That is all. Marotta out.
IMHO, the biggest difference between a company like NGC and a company like ACG is the difference between a third party and a first party. AFAIK, neither PCGS or NGC actually sells coins. They sell grading services. Although, I believe this point is blurred by the fact that the company owning PCGS might also own a company selling the coins. OTOH, ACG makes no bones about it. Mr. Hager happily sells his grading services and his coins without any pretext of being a third party.
You seem to lump all the grading services together when there are significant differences between them.
http://www.k6az.com/hager_lawsuit.htm I always find this link revealing of the character of the owner. And since all grading is 'subjective' then the character of the person who does the grading has much more impact than if you leave room for there to be 'objective' components to coin grading.
check out this great "MS67" there's nothing more to add :boozer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1392745356">eBay sorry,systems not working right you may have to copy and paste.It's worth it,seriously. ~ Jim
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1392745356 I love that auction! I also love the fact that the phone number given comes back to the Workers Compensation Hotlline... I can hear it now.. "Johnson, go buy that coin for our company!" "yes, sir" "Johnson, how did you hurt your back?" "i hurt it after I bought the coin, by jumping to conclusions" :lol:
Wow, this is a first for me! I have never heard anyone, except Alan Hager, defend ACG. Marotta, do you work for ACG? Pardon me for asking, but I am trying to get some facts... The Professional Numismatists Guild ran a poll recently. The PNG poll shows that I am not alone in considering ACG "Unacceptable."
Ah yes, the very rare Silhoutted Liberty Nickle coin! I have spent a life time trying to track this coin down, and now here it is at my finger tips! You fools, ACG knows better than to simply attribute this to wear on a simple Liberty Nickle. This may be the finest example available anywhere. Hey.......why is there a vulture in the background of this picture? Don't they only eat dead and rotting carcass'?
I thought people here might find it interesting to know that if you search Google for "asa accugrade" now, this thread comes up second, just after their own website. We're getting a bunch of traffic from people looking for info about them, so if there's anything you want to say for their benefit.... it's an open forum.
Where is the Florida Attorney General on this? It baffles me that there hasn't been more involvement by the Florida State attorneys office on the issues surrounding accugrade. Unless I'm missing something, has there ever been a criminal investigation done on this group/individual? Rgrds Tom
All I can say is that if you look on the net for MS70 graded Silver Eagles the coins graded by NGC and PCSG get higher prices than other grading services. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=523&item=3917643521&rd=1 versus http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39488&item=3917097061&rd=1
I will gladly trade any Accugrade slab for any PCGS slab with the exact same coin and grade, and I will give you 10% of current ask price. Any takers?
