Sent my 1914-D to PCGS for Secure Plus - what do you think they will do?

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I wouldn't get hung up on terms like "gradeflation" or "emotion". I think every coin deserves to be recognized by peer / industry leaders in the highest grade possible, period. Thousands of great coins reside in slabs that have low technical grades. I believe it is to protect TPG reputations and guarantees. These are the coins I like to buy and pay them to take a second look, in which case I believe they feel more comfortable giving the higher grade. In your case Charmy, PCGS could have given it a 64+ buy gave it a 65, which is two bumps if you can see it that way. I'm sure they put all the masterminds on that decision before they cut that grade loose. Everything other opinion is monday morning quarterbacking, mine included. matt

 

Doug, first of all, your arguments are getting into generalities, but we are discussing this particular coin, and I would like to keep it on track and not get into discussions about the TPG grading world, gradflation, or grading in general.

That being said, you're completely off base when you say that I am being influenced by wanting to own a higher graded coin. I am not "buying into" anything - I see coins for what they are, I look at and evaluate a ton of copper, both raw and certified. It is my business to see coins for what they are. And I admittedly see a lot of misgraded certified coins, I know what they look like - and I know what they are supposed to look like.

But in the case of this particular coin, humbly, Doug you are wrong and your arguments lack one big huge basis. They are based on other people's opinions of this coin. YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS COIN IN HAND AND I HAVE. So not even having seen the coin in hand makes your arguments lack merit and are not persuasive to me for that reason alone.

But in any event, this 1914-D completely deserves the MS65 grade, no matter what you say or think. I don't play the crack out game or the upgrade game with my coins. As a matter of fact, this is the ONLY coin I have EVER submitted to get a higer grade. This 1914-D is as nice, if not nicer than any of my MS65 coins - both in my personal collection and in my inventory. It has more pristine surfaces, a better strike, full luster, and nicer eye appeal than most MS65's I've ever seen. I'll bet if you stood this coin up to 20 other MS65 graded copper coins, you'd agree this one well deserves that grade.

Doug, I know you have an issue with thinking (or admitting) that you are wrong, so once again we will have to agree to disagree, because I know what I'm talking about on this coin.

I understand you come from a different shall we say "grading era" when grading was more strict, and you disagree with how most graders grade coins these days. I get that. I learned to grade from someone in your "era" but "grew up" in a more modern grading era so perhaps my (and probably most anyone under the age of 60) criteria is more liberal than yours.

And by the way, I recently rode home on the plane from a show with several of the PCGS graders - their average age was 25! So do TPG's have lesser experienced graders - ABSOLUTELY!

 

The fact that you're basing your opinion on everyone else's opinion, that's where you're wrong - plain and simple. As we all know, grading is so subjective that you must form your own opinion based on what you see, from your own eye, from your own experience, from your own knowledge - not from what everyone else sees or knows. And that's why we have such disparity in grading. I'd even bet if I sent it back in to PCGS, or even NGC, that 3 more graders will look at it and agree that it is MS65 - then what does that do to your numbers, Doug? I sent the coin back to have it regraded because I felt they, however many of them, were wrong, for whatever reason - lack of experience, lack of good lighting, colorblind, need better glasses, woke up on the wrong side of the bed, drank too much the night before, whatever the reason.... plain and simple, I felt they got it wrong - which as we all know happens, both ways.

But, until you see the coin in hand, Doug, to me, your arguments nonetheless are meritless.

 

Now come on you two, can't we all just get along.
I think Yall are just going to have to agree to disagree. I see both of your points. Charmy has seen this coin in hand and has thought from the beginning that the coin graded higher than the holder said and with her infinite knowledge of copper, she was right in her point.
On the other hand, Doug was right in his point that more graders have graded the coin a 64 than a 65 which he is saying that from a numbers standpoint, 7 beats 3 so in that point, he is right.
Both of you have more knowledge then I ever will on the subject of coins and I see both of your points so I will have to call this a draw.

 

Awe, Heath, the voice reason and objectivity! Thank you. Doug and I agree to disagree quite often, but we do enjoy our debates!!

 

That cent has a very nice strong strike on it.

 

Doug, with this particular coin, it wasn't "gradflation" at all - the other graders, and you, are simply and plainly wrong. PERIOD. I don't care how many numbers you want to use, they just got it wrong with this coin. That happens, sometimes they get it wrong, you get it wrong, I get it wrong - we're not perfect, even you. But this (one) time on this particular coin, I am right and they/you are wrong. I've seen the coin, I know what I'm talking about - you haven't seen the coin, you don't know what you're talking about.

Like I said, I'm willing to bet that if I sent in this coin again, that it would still come back MS65 - that however many graders look at it again, they will agree it is MS65. And if I did that several more times, does that mean I'm more right because I will now have numbers on my side? NO, absolutely NOT. So you arguing about the grade by using their numbers doesn't get your argument any merit.

In any event, and the final word is that whatever grade is on the label, the coin speaks for itself. And you and I will just disagree on what that is.

 

Charmy has been publicly stating she felt the coin was a 65 from the day she purchased it. I've seen the coin in hand and based on the PCGS/NGC grading standards, I agreed that a grade of 65BN would be appropriate based on other 65BN Lincolns I've seen (though I haven't compared to other '14-D examples).

Of course, most of us know that the graders aren't perfect and that one day they'll see a coin as a 64, the next a 65 and maybe the next as a 63... that's just the way grading works, regardless of the expertise of the graders and the number of graders/finalizers. I've seen where the same coin (copper cent) go in for grading at a TPG and get a 65 one day, a 64 another, then a 63 and finally a 67!!!!! In that case, the correct grade was probably a 66, but the TPG disagreed each time...

Doug, with all due respect I find many of your posts in this thread off-topic. This thread is about Charmy's coin and whether that particular coin deserved an upgrade... PCGS determined that it was worthy of a 65 at this time, regardless of the opinions of the graders on the previous gradings. Many of your posts deal with generalizations about third-party grading and gradflation and have very little to nothing to do with Charmy's coin. Though you have some valid points about third-party grading and gradflation in general, a single example of a coin getting upgraded (which you state you haven't seen in hand and didn't even need to see in hand or even in photos) doesn't support your point in a case like this where the coin was selected out of scores of other graded examples by an expert in the series who probably knows how to grade this series as well as if not better than some of the graders working for the third party graders. Now, if we were talking about an example where an average collector bought some random copper from eBay and submitted them for regrade and got several upgrades, then your points would carry a little more weight.

Congrats on getting the coin into the correct holder!

 

If you get a chance, I'd love to see what you think about my 1866. I plan on sending it to Todd for a Charmy Special. Of course, he'll have less toning to work with than your typical finds.

http://www.cointalk.com/t113902/