A couple weeks ago there was a discussion about how toning can affect the value of coins, and much of it was centered on Morgan dollars. It happened that one of my friends had 23 listings for Morgan toners last week, and I decided to follow them to record the results. He always starts his auctions at 99c with no reserve, and he lets the bidding dictate the final price. All of the Morgans in this auction were common dates, some with better grades and some with nicer toning and eye appeal. I should stress that this brief study is, by no means, completely accurate or scientific in nature, and you can draw your own conclusions from it. Here are the results of these auctions: NOTE: Retail values (2nd amount) are unresearched and approximations only. 1) 1880 PCGS MS64 - $166.61 - $110 - +51% 2) 1881-S PCGS MS66 - $296.10 - $250 - +18% 3) 1881-S NGC MS64 - $71.00 - $50 - +42% 4) 1881-S PCGS MS64 - $90.00 - $50 - +80% 5) 1882 ANACS MS64 - $127.50 - $55 - +132% 6) 1883-O NGC MS64 - $93.93 - $50 - +88% 7) 1883-O PCGS MS64 - $71.00 - $50 - +42% 8) 1884-O PCGS MS65 - $270.25 - $130 - +108% 9) 1884-O NGC MS63 - $72.00 - $40 - +80% 10) 1884-O - NGC MS63 - $76.00 - $40 - +90% 11) 1884-O PCGS MS63 - $69.73 - $40 - +74% 12) 1885 NGC MS64* - $168.50 - $75 - +126% 13) 1885-O NGC MS64* - $143.50 - $75 - +91% 14) 1885-O NGC MS64 - $71.00 - $50 - +42% 15) 1885-O NGC MS63 - $56.00 - $40 - +40% 16) 1886 PCGS MS64 - $179.85 - $50 - +260% 17) 1886 NGC MS63 - $82.00 - $40 - +105% 18) 1887 NGC MS64 - $79.00 - $50 - +58% 19) 1887 NGC MS64 - $42.65 - $50 - (15%) 20) 1887 PCGS MS64 - $77.00 - $50 - +54% 21) 1887 NGC MS63 - $90.19 - $40 - +126% 22) 1887 NGC MS61 - $48.00 - $33 - +45% 23) 1887 PCGS MS60 - $87.00 - $30 - +190% What I would like everyone to do is examine these figures without the benefit of photos and comment on your conclusions. In general, what can you tell me about the coins in these auctions? PLEASE! If you don't believe that anyone should pay premiums for toners, it isn't necessary for you to express your opinion in that regard. I hope that this little exercise will provide some insight for those who are thinking about collecting toners. Have fun! Chris
Since these coins were sold in auctions, you really can't go by what was received on price as sometimes people can get caught up in the moment and not use judgement when bidding on an item they really want, and often times the last bid is just way out of sight for the actual value of the item. Case in point: I was at a live estate auction recently, and there was a major lot of coins to be auctioned off, a lot of the Morgans were rare CC's. Bidding started rather slow, about $100 below FMV, and in some instances, started even lower than that. Once things got started, it was a frenzy of bidding. 1 Morgan 1881-CC MS-60 went for $1100. It was unreal. Personally that coin has a FMV of about $450. Had your friend sold these out right with a firm asking price, it might be more realistic as to what he/she actually received to determine how much was paid for the coin's toning.
I qualified this exercise by stating that it wasn't a scientific study. I only want to see what conclusions others might draw from the raw numbers. Chris
I totally disagree with your assessment of auctions not being a good indicator of actual market value. Yes auctions can have their problems like people getting caught up in an item, but firm asking price type retail sales also have their problems. I guess what I am saying is all of your criticisms about auctions and their implications on the actual value of the coin can be said about stated asking price sales as well.
This is a nice nonscientific example of supply (limited) and demand (high) influencing price (except for #19). These toned coins are very hot right now. I am guessing that the toning helped eye appeal for these mostly non-gem examples. Quick question: How many different bidders won? I am interested to know if one or a few people bought them all up or were there 23 different winners. TC
Since I saved all of these, give me a little while and I'll check. Do they assign the same coded ID for each bidder in each auction? I've never thought about it. Chris
There were 13 different winners: 1) One bidder with 93 feedback won 5 2) One bidder with 98 feedback won 4 3) One bidder with 882 feedback won 2 4) One bidder with 213 feedback won 2 5) One bidder with 151 feedback won 2 6) One bidder with 7216 7) One bidder with 1973 8) One bidder with 1103 9) One bidder with 537 10) One bidder with 268 11) One bidder with 55 12) One bidder with 19 13) One bidder with 5 Chris
I do not believe they use the same coded ID for each bidder, there would only be 676 possible coded combinations in the form of A****A.
I noted that some of the ID's start with letters, and some start with numbers. Also, there is one that starts with a letter and has 4 stars instead of ending in a letter. That would probably change the possibilities, too. Then if you consider someone's feedback score........???? Chris
Well it sure looks like toners get a premium but we knew that. As long as the toning is nice and not ugly. (Probably that -15% one's problem)
As a rule collectors are the only ones who pay extra for toning, good luck getting it back out of the coin. True you get major collections that make the news every now and then that send the dealers bidding each other up but the same could be said for Overton numbers/most VAM's/sheldon or any other nitch market. PAY FOR COLOR-SELL FOR TYPE
You should add pictures, not all toned morgans look the same... (Number 13 is mine ) Also shouldn't shipping be counted as it is part of what one is willing to pay for the coin.. I want to say it was $4 shipping for each coin
I don't see that #19 was cleaned, but the toning is rather blah. To be honest, I was hoping that others would try to do a little more "number crunching" to form some conclusions irrespective of the photos. Chris
I'm mistaken here's the link http://cgi.ebay.com/1887-Morgan-NGC-MS64-lightly-Toned-Super-Luster-/320541174398?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4aa1be2a7e#ht_5080wt_858
