Show and Tell - Part I

I finally pulled out a few coins for show and tell. Like the good Sergeant Schultz, I know nothing. Nichts! I no longer have a World Coin Book of any kind. I am looking for comments and information. This is curiosity, not the prelude to solicitation. My guesses on two of five. More to come.

A British copper penny from 1797 with old George III on it. The French and the Americans were being a tad uncivilized in those days.

An 1857, one penny, bank token from the Bank of Upper Canada. And I thought all of Canada was "upper".

Can anyone fill in some details. Thanks QD

 

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Same Deal Part II

A German city-state silver coin from 1693. 24 Marien Groschen, from Luneberg perhaps? This coin prompted me to read history books which I never had time for in college. Still reading.

A British silver coin from 1889 with a likeness of Queen Victoria. The Brits were riding fine in old '89.

 

So nobody has anything to say? My education is being neglected. dd:

 

It's past midnight here in Jockland, so i'm about to fall off my perch. If no one has responded to you before, i'll do so after I get some shut eye. :smile

Could you check the diameter of your Geo III penny for me? I just want to make sure it is a penny and not a `cartwheel' twopence (so called because it was a fairly hefty piece of copper).

Could you also check the diameter of your Vicky silver piece? It is either a florin, aka 2/- (two shillings) or `two bob', or it's a nice example of a double florin, aka 4/- (four shillings) or `four bob' (the subject of an earlier thread here).

PS: Are you sure that the date on the 24 mariengroschen is 1693? it looks more like 1653 from my side of the screen ;-)

Ian

 

For the grade I'd say between F and XF.The value $5 to $10.I have the same coin.Here's a pic of it. B12

 

Thanks.

 

Your coin is shiney. Mine looks like mud.

Thanks for the info. QD

 

That's good if it looks like mud because that means it wasn't cleaned and the value won't go down,but mine was cleaned! B12

 

Would it not darken if you set it out in the sun and open air?

 

If you set out any kind of coin it will definitely get tarnished and get darker.You don't want to do that! B12

 

OK, the canuk one you know about.

The copper Brit is indeed a penny (the cartwheel 2d was 41mm diam).
Your one isn't in all that brilliant for a coin whose detail is well protected by heavy rims and incuse legends / dates. Anything between $5 - $10 IMHO.

The not so wee german is from Brunswick- Wolfenbuttel issued in the names of Rudolph August (1666-1704) and Anton Ulrich (1685-1704) whop were joint rulers. (KM586 and definitely 1693). Just under the word `groschen' should be three stars . The next line has `HC (symbol) H', the mark of the mint master Heinrich Christoph Hille, and indicating the coin was struck at Brunswick.

One thing i will say about that coin is that there is something going on with it. The horse is twice as fat as it should be, indicating to me that the coin has been either double struck or overstruck. The legends above its head seem to indicate double struck, but....you've got it in hand. have a close look. The horsie should be a lot slimmer though. ;-) In that condition KM has it at circa $30 - $60 at the top end (again, IMHO).

The Brit silver is indeed a double florin, aka 4/-, aka four shillings, aka `four bob'. It is .925 silver, weighs 22.6207 gms (actual silver content being .6727 ozs). In 1889 there was an error coin with the second I in Victoria being a 1. You don't have to bother with that though 'cause yours is the plain Jane one. That date ranges in value from around $25 in Fine through to $140 in Unc. I personally don't think it warrants a higher grade than EF, but again, my opninon and 25c still wouldn't fetch a cup of coffee.
To my mind these double florins are considerably undervalued in relation to their historical context and relatively short lifespan. Yours is a very nice collectable example.

cheers,

Ian

 

I think I have to get a Double Florin to anchor the seeds of my nice BU only Victorian Jubilee set.

 

Thank you very much for your consideration. I know that am being lazy for not buying the necessary books and researching this stuff myself. I shall do more in the future. Your comments have inspired me a bit. :thumb:

Are there any general reference books that I should purchase to initiate research on a collection of world coins dating from about 1700 to 1950? There is no way that I will ever know as much as some of the collectors that frequent this website, but I have to do more. On one hand, I a, ashamed of my ignorance. On the other hand, I have wine to make.

 

You could allways try to pick up a copy of
'Coins of England & the UK'
Published by
SPINKS

It is the standard cat of Brit coins

De Orc :smile

 

I'm happy to help. We all start off knowing the same after all. What we learn comes from experience and books. I'm pretty ignorant concerning wine making, and if it weren't for the distance i'd happily come to a deal with you over swapping coin data for the occasional bottle or three!!

Sadly, when it comes to world coinage your options for decent reference material is very limited...as in Krause Mischler's Standard Catalogue of World Coins. The problem is, there is a volume for each century 1601 -1700, 1701-1800, 1801-1900, then 1901 - present time. They are big reference books and not light bed time reading. Now, these items are going to cost you the going rates (check out Amazon) for the bang up to date ones.......but you can fairly readily buy earlier editions *for next to nothing*. For those setting out on their world coin quest I would very much suggest that they arm themselves with the books, but that there is sound merit in buying the `bargain books' type old stock or even second hand.

Numismatics is an immense subject. You never quite realise quite how big the subject matter is until you get deeper into it. Krause is King for a generalist approach to post mediaeval world coinage. There is none better. If however you find yourself focussing on any certain country, period, ruler etc....that's the time to really look at more specific reference materials.

Ian

 

There was an Upper Canada(Ontario) and a Lower Canada (Quebec), before they were merged into the the Province of Canada. Upper Canada was called that because it was at a higher elevation then Lower Canada.

 

Why did the bank mint these coins? How were they used?

 

The bank issued these coins (actually tokens) because there was a lack of circulating coinage. The Province of Canada did not starting issuing official coins until 1858, before that the only coins available where foreign coins that had entered Canada or other tokens.

 

I don't know with confidence what you mean by "over-struck", I assume that means that an silver coin is used as silver "stock" to strike a new coin.

I always thought that this war horse (no doubt a Rappen) was pretty fat, but who knew it was an error. I looked at the coin photo again at a larger scale. The coin really does seem to be over-struck. There appears to be a relic oval symbol situated dead-center in the position of the horse's belly. Astounding! Why I did not notice that before. Of course, I lose my glasses, keys, and socks, but this is an amazing observation.

As you also indicated, the lettering above the horse's head is over-struck. I wonder if there is a German coin expert out there that might be able to guess what the original coin was? Fascinating. :kewl:

Is this over-strike issue common with old European coins?

I found the exact same coin on the net, but it's in French. German OK, but French. I'm cooked. The horse is definitely fat, and it's supposed to be fat.

http://ventesuroffres.free.fr/images/monnaies/vso/v07/v07_1501.jpg

 

Well, i'm no particular expert on German coins per se, so I will stop at the edge of my knowledge and understanding.

I'll also check out my own collection to see if Ii actually have one of these or similar. Even having seen the same coin from the French site, the horse still looks overweight to me. I'm used to seeing slimmer horses on coinage of that state. I'll try to find one and scan it to show you what I mean.

An overstrike is usually a coin that has been struck over a `host' coin, usually of the same dimensions and usually an earlier type. Recycling coins was certainly the norm in France at that time. I'm not too sure about the many and varied German States but I would imagine there would have been some. It certainly isn't uncommon to find doubling to the legends due to the coin having been struck more than once. If you look at the reverse of the one on the french site you will see that at least one of the letters in the legend has `doubling'.

It's `falling off perch' time here again. I'll take another look in the morning (Jockland time that is) and check to see if there is an earlier version from the same or neighbouring state that might have been used as `host'.

Ian