I am rather curious about this: I know that premiums for rare Overton varieties don't really start until around R-4, but how much are these premiums? For example what sort of premium would you pay for an R-4+? How about an R-5? For purposes of discussion, lets talk about PCGS or NGC certified, problem free, VF-EF examples. I've seen a few R-5's listed recently for over $800 for mid-1820's era coins. Is this a typical premium? Just for comparison, I've seen many EF-40 and 45 common varieties listed for $200-$225 lately. Oh, and because we need pictures, here is the first CBH I bought, an O-140, R-4+, which NGC recently certified at VF-25:
Thats a good question. And though I've collected capped bust halves for years, I really don't know the answer. Guy~
And the issue is a LOT broader than just your CBH's. When you step away from the mainstream coins you quickly run out of pricing info. And by mainstream I mean the most common varieties. I think this where you truly run into the "what the buyer will pay" situation.
Most of us that collect any series by die marriage collect/prefer raw coins because even with most coins being eligible for registry sets by way of the genuine designation...the fees associated with variety attribution are cost prohibitive....and that's assuming the TPG gets the attribution correct! Currently, I would never use the PR only on NGC/PCGS coins as it pertains to rare marriages as they probably anomalies. But, when it comes to rare marriages one can throw any and all price guides/research out the window. Also, within each series that is collected by die marriage...many collectors swap or sell duplicates at a fraction of what some so-called tougher varieties sell for on the open market. And many times collectors will use patience and keen eye along with knowledge of PUPs in order to cherry pick hard to find marriages at type prices. Another factor maybe in play is a rare or common die may be in a sought after or needed die state. This is often the case with me as I only collect a select number of specific die marriages/remarriages of certain years in order to put together die state progressions or emission sequences.
A Bust Nut once told me that his rule of thumb was a 50% premium for an R.4, a 100% premium for an R.5, and whatever it takes to get anything rarer. Your mileage may vary. My one and only R.4 (although I think it has since been downgraded):
Never been able to figure out the rarity premiums. I just hope to cherry pick some of every now and then. By the way - two nice bust halves.
The "elite" few who seek out the rare Overton's are advanced collectors who have mastered the series and are now getting serious. Every now and then they get to "cherry pick" a rare variety, but for the most part rely on known specimens. There will always be a premium for the "un-common" just how much that will be is like like a wisp of smoke. Darn good question, wish I had an answer for you, Capped Bust collectors are as crusty as some of the coins they seek.
A large part of the charm of the busties for me is picking up a raw coin for type prices and then rummaging thru the overton book, I will quit collecting them when they are all slabbed with the O number, the fun to me is measuring all those little details, and then thru the process of elimination finding the o number. I have seen many tpg'ed and attributed slabs at the few shows I have attended, but I would just as soon have someone else chew my food for me as to have the tpg attribute my bust halves.
Exactly why my local shop does not attribute them and I agree with them. The only problem is they are usually crowded and I hate to grab their book and start attributing some of the dates. I tend to get in the way - but they do not mind. A few of the varieties I have left are easy to spot, but some I need to look at the coins. And that is a beauty of an 1806 - is it the O-114?
Thanks, and indeed it is. The prime die state is much more difficult than the later die states. The drastically recut letters in Liberty help narrow it down some.
Yes, it's a good question for which there is no discrete, deterministic "answer" which holds in all cases. Coin prices in general, and specialty material in particular, is opportunistic. Things vary wildly depending on circumstance. The same coin can bring radically different prices depending on who shows up at auction, and what sold earlier in the night - to whom, and at what prices. In general, yes it needs to be r.4 and up. The more common the material, the higher the grade must be before gaining premium. Sometimes, the collector is rarer than the coin !
