Question about treasure find

I dont know why you're apologizing. I read your comment about trawlers having to do with fishing rights, which indeed, are issues of sovereignty. And yet these same countries, which profess their sincere interest in such archaeological matters and sovereignty, at the same time allow such trawlers to destroy the very same sites. Which, at the end of the day, just tells me that to the 'Suits in Charge' it boils down to Economics.

 

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So gang....getting back to my original question..... does Spain have to reimburse Odyssey for their costs of salvaging and if not, what is preventing them from returning the treasure to the bottom of the sea and telling Spain to go get it themselves.

I can care less on ethics and methods of retrieval and morals and all that other crap. What really ticks me off is that nobody ever seems to care about this stuff until someone else does all the work and yeilds a treasure. If this was so important to Spain, why didn't they put together their own salvage team to find the treasure? Would they be putting up such a stink if cases of plates were found? Or how about rusty old cannons and cannon balls? But gold and silver and they start laying down all these claims.

 

Actually, cannons are pretty highly desired objects that are often sought out from wreck sites... when a boat drags a magnetometer behind it looking for ferous metals, they often pick up on the large cannons, then find the treasure scattered about there. Also, cannons are often recorded in ships manifests or commissioning records and when located on the sea bed are hauled up to help positively identify which ship the salvage teams / archeologists are working on.

 

That's what I would've done......

 

Indeed.

 

I agree, it boils down to Economics.

You would think Odyssey is due a salvaging fee. Spain's position is, I think, Odyssey raped Spain's property and disturbed a grave site. ad nauseam. . .

The legal seascape has changed a lot since the days of Mel Fisher.

 

Mel Blanc too.....

 

What a maroon!

 

Hey Krispy - FYI... are you aware of the etymology of that word?

 

Yes I do. However, per the link cited, I'm referencing the Mel Blanc / Bugs Bunny appropriation.

 

I got left at the tree cutting. Don;t trees have right too ?

 

A couple of short points. Generally speaking lost property does not belong to the finder. It belongs to the person that lost the property and most states have laws that so state. So if I drop a coin, and you find it, technically speaking your obligation is to turn it over to the appropriate authority in your state. This is true for any type of personal property, for example, if my Grandma buried her money on the south 40, forgot about it, and then died, the buyer of the real estate does not own the money. There may be some exceptions, but this happens all the time, mostly banks and insurance companies that owe money but cannot find the rightful owner. Some states have web sites set up to help locate the owner of lost propery. If you cant find who it belongs to it goes to the state.

At sea, the similar rule for ship wrecks is salvage. There are very complex rules for deteriming who the owner of a shipwreck is and whether and under what conditions a salvagor is entitled to compensation. This is nothing new, salavage operations and who gets what from or for the salvage (a shipwreck) are grist for the legal mill in shipping areas. Usually it is only a ship carcas that is in dispute, however, not gold. THese same rules apply for the most part here. The Black Swan incident would be much more clear if Odyssey would fess up on where the wreck is, and what the wreck is, I cant see that they have done that yet. Countries are funny about taking cash and valuables out of the country, including the US, Spain is not any different than any other country in that regard. And they are more sensitive about antiques. Look at the posts on the foreign coins for other countries that are trying to protect their historical objects. Point being that yeah, the salvagor should be compensated for locating the wreck and providing the information to appropriate authorities, and then if the appropriate authorities agree, to pursue salvage operations. Risky? yep. But we have rules for a reason, they are pretty much established, and mostly to protect established economic interests like shipping companies. for an example, on the post above with the link to wikipedia about Mel Fisher, go to Wikipedia and find and click on the US Supreme Court decision for a taste of how complicated this issue gets to be.

Odyssey knew exactly what they were doing and tried to skirt the rules and got busted. My bet is that they do ok at the end of the day. Maybe not as much as they would like, but I bet they make a tidy profit.

 

I feel that its only fair to reimburse the guys that grabbed the ship to begin with

 

Saints would have a short life in the rough and tumble salvage business.
Did you ever find anything at sea?

 

Did he end up getting the claim??

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My gf and I went to his museum once while at the keys. Very gaudy and cheesy.

Seeing him and his people on TV interviews and photos with the giant gold ropes and medallions around their necks... It's all beautiful and stuff, but I swore I could see the sweat rolling down his leathered face while he tried to keep his head up from under the weight of that gold... Those weren't smiles on his face, those were winces of pain and exhaustion!

 

Eventually. Check the link in my earlier post.

 

That's not what I meant. I meant the spot that Doug sat vigil over for 10 days...

 

"...Those weren't smiles on his face, those were winces of pain and exhaustion!"

He had a severe case of emphysema which may have caused some of the visible discomfort. When I met him in the '80s he had a tough time speaking more than several words before running out of breath. Yet he still smoked cigarettes.