Morgan Preference: Frosty, Mirrored, or Toned?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by phubanks, May 20, 2010.

  1. phubanks

    phubanks Junior Member

    Just curious what flavor of Morgan most of you prefer?
    Frosty, Proof-like Mirrored, Toned, Other?

    I just bought this Morgan today, it's not rare, but I loved the frosty surface. I am going to use it in my Type Set Collection.

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  3. Billyray

    Billyray Junior Member

    As I only have 1 raw EF40 example, I guess I'd have to say any right now lol.

    Guess I'm gonna have to make that decision once I start buying slabs
     
  4. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    Nice Morgan! I have examples of each, but my favorite are definitely the PL-DMPL Morgans.
     
  5. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

  6. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Ooops - yes nice coin you have there. Nice clean fields in my opinion.
     
  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

  8. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I have about 150 slabbed ranging from MS63-MS67 and my favorites are CC's, DMPL's and toners. I would love to be able to get an MS68 Rainbow some day.

    Chris
     
  9. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    I've always wanted a DMPL Morgan.
     
  10. Duke Kavanaugh

    Duke Kavanaugh The Big Coin Hunter

    Ditto
     
  11. RaceBannon

    RaceBannon Member

    I like them frosty and blast white if they are uncirculated. But I also find them appealing in circulated grades if they are about VF20-25ish, gun-metal grey, with even, honest wear. Those coins look to me like they came right out of the pocket of a Cowboy who slapped the dollar down on the bar and asked for a shot of his favorite whiskey. I'll post a photo later.
     
  12. phubanks

    phubanks Junior Member

    Thanks for all the responses so far!

    Does anyone know how each of these types formed?

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong ...

    I am thinking the frosty ones show some original mint luster? (some may have been dipped way back when)

    The rainbow ones were from people putting them in the old blue whitman folders that had sulfer in them and caused the rainbow discoloration (esp around the edges) ... or from artificial toning

    On the deep mirror proof-likes ... I am really not sure how they formed? Were some Morgan dies polished before they were minted? Somebody must know the answer to this. It's interesting but I cannot think of another series of US Coins that has so many DMPL examples. Certainly you never see them in the Peace Silver Dollar series. At least I've never seen one.
     
  13. vipergts2

    vipergts2 Jester in hobby of kings

    Nothing like a frosty white Morgan. Here are a few of mine.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. BALD SPARTAN

    BALD SPARTAN Member

    I like them frosty and also with the light signs of toning around the rims.:)
     
  15. RaceBannon

    RaceBannon Member


    Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Love this circulated Morgan, and not just 'cuz it's a 93S!
     

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  16. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    It's funny I don't care for them but yet I have more than I need/want. Since I'm color blind the toned one don't do a thing for me. The other thing I notice when I go to a show FUN or Whitman or local one's I always see thousands of them.....
     
  17. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I agree with you. Morgans look good in circulated condition, and I'd rather own a coin that derives its value from scarcity than condition.:thumb:
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The answer to your question is quite simple, it's a matter of die states and planchet preparation.

    The Morgan planchets were all basically prepared the same way - good, quality planchets. But the dies tell the tale.

    DMPL's were the first coins off the dies. PL's came next and the regular, frosty Morgans came last. As and the dies wore, the level and quality of frost diminished with that wear.

    Toning of course happened after the coins left the mint. But - you knew there was gonna be a but didn't ya ? - because of the nature of luster, toning is most often found on the regular, frosty Morgans. And also because there's a whole lot more of them than there are DMPL's and PL's.

    As for this comment - "It's interesting but I cannot think of another series of US Coins that has so many DMPL examples." - just about every other series minted during the Morgan time frame can be found in DMPL and/or PL. But, you are correct, you don't find as many of them.

    A large part of the reason why is because the other denominations circulated - Morgans did not. Morgans spent most of their lives sitting in $1000 bags in some bank vault. So the DMPL and PL examples retained their qualities. With other denominations, because they circulated, the DMPL and PL examples were, well, circulated and they lost their qualities because of it. Only a few were saved and put away. And those are the few we see today.

    Had they been stored in bank vaults, untouched like the Morgans, then the DMPL and PL examples would be just as common as the Morgans are.

    And since you mention the Peace dollars, the dies were simply not prepared the same way. The devices in the dies were not frosted. The devices on Morgan dies were frosted just like modern day Proof dies are frosted. And the fields on the Peace dollar dies were treated differently too. They intentionally were given a more satin like finish, a smoother finish, than the dies of the Morgans. And that's why the luster on Peace dollars is so different from Morgans. It's also why Peace dollars don't tone like Morgans. The type of luster a coin has is what determines how that coin will tone when all other things, meaning environmental conditions, are equal.
     
  19. phubanks

    phubanks Junior Member

    fantastic historical perspective! thanks for posting

    (learn something new every day)
     
  20. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Many of the Morgans of the Treasury releases of the 60's & 70's never saw the light of day until that time. Those that came into contact with the canvas bags often had gorgeous rainbows depending on how much of the coin made contact with the bag. Some developed crescents because other coins covered parts of one another. Others developed textile rainbows revealing the weave of the bag. Of course, most of the coins away from the canvas were blast white with booming luster.

    There are actually two types of DMPL's. Those that were produced from brand new dies, and those that were produced when the dies had to be polished sometime in their production life. I like to call them original DMPL's and polished DMPL's. I think it was Bowers (can't remember for sure) who said that as a general rule, the first 500 or so Morgans struck from brand new dies had a tendency to be DMPL because, both, the dies and planchets were polished prior to the onset of production. After that, the dies began to deteriorate. Oftentimes in the course of production, dies had to be polished to remove clashes or other surface anomalies, and these can be readily distinguishable by, sometimes severe, polishing lines that you can see all over the surfaces of the coin. Original DMPL's are much harder to find than polished DMPL's.

    Chris
     
  21. phubanks

    phubanks Junior Member

    it's interesting ... so the old DMPL's are similar in some ways to the "first strikes" MS69's and MS70's of today (espect in the ASE series)
     
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