I bought a $20 double eagle from a major bullion dealer that had made it into a PCI holder, a high grade one too. I submitted in the holder to NGC, which refused to certify it--saying it was not genuine. In calling the bullion coin dealer, they said they had a number of Morgan dollars that had made it into PCGS holders. I'm wondering how common this is, to fool the experts.
They are probably talking about the Micro O's. There were 3 dates, can't recall 'em off the top of my head, but for years NGC refused to slab them but PCGS would. Eventually PCGS admitted the coins were fakes and stood by their guarantee. Yes, it happens. But very rarely. As for finding fakes in other slabs though, besides NGC and PCGS. That happens rather often.
I am very glad to hear that this happens only rarely with NGC or PCGS. I guess one of the benefits of a PCGS or NGC slabbed coin then is that it likely guarantees authenticity. TC
No, it absolutely guarantees authenticity. For if they do make a mistake, then they buy the coin from you at fair market value.
Is that the fair market value for what a fake is going for, or market value for what the coin was supposed to be? Guy~
Haha, you aren't by chance a lawyer are you I would assume fair market for the real coin, but I don't actually know.
Mistakes...er..."Mechanical Errors" are made by even the best from time to time. PCGS "Ex-Norweb" Woods Hibernia Have The Mighty Fallen? Part I http://www.winsociety.org/newsletter/vol-3/happen_12-03.html#TOP Have The Mighty Fallen? Part II http://www.winsociety.org/newsletter/vol-3/happen_01-04.html#TOP and the 1795 $1 SEGS http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2961579&fpart=1
Yes, mechanical errors happen, but that was no mechanical error. That was a plain old fashioned screw up and nothing else.
From that one article: "A mechanical error is an obvious error. Examples: a clearly mint state frosty surface coin in a proof holder, a 1936 dated coin in a holder that said 1935, a Boone commem in a Texas commem holder, a flat as a pancake band dime in a FB holder, etc. The obvious mechanical error can sometimes be a grade. For example, in 1986 we had a dispute with a dealer because he purchased a MS65 1893-O dollar. The problem was the coin was a bag marked to death MS60 that no one in his right mind would ever consider even MS63 let alone MS65. The guiding concept with mechanical errors is common sense. David" Could it be a mechanical error on the MS-69 coin in the other thread? Let me add the link to paul's thread. Here it is - link. Could that be the problem? And does this mean that they would not provide remuneration for the person holding the coin?
How come? Even I could see it should not be a 69. So I look at it like - it must really be bad if I notice it right off.
I wonder if the grading world would ever get insurance? Meaning if they call the wrong grade, then their insurance company would be liable and payoff the customer. May be an idea for an over zealous entrepeneur. just a thought
For one that wants to go broke. Insurance companies make their money from people that never collect on the insurance. That means they have to have lots and lots of customers. A company that insured coin grades would only have two customers - NGC and PCGS. They'd go broke.
They have always stood behind their product, but they have only had a written guarantee of authenticity for the past three years. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what they charge. If they charged a dollar per coin graded they'd take in a couple million a year in premiums and they'd be OK as long as they don't have to pay out more than that. When you think about it, each of the TPG's are acting as an insurance company doing exactly what you are suggesting. Part of the fee from each coin has to go to guaranteeing or insuring all those coins. Even if it is self insuring. If an insurance company would go broke, so would the TPG.
