1958 U.S. Mint (Double Set) set

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by legoman, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. legoman

    legoman New Member

    I'm thinking of purchasing this mint set and seeing it's the oldest one of my collection I was wondering if anyone can tell me if this looks like the original packaging from the mint.
    It's being offered on ebay and I sometimes get nervous when buying.
    I just want your opinion and surely won't hold anyone responsible if it's not.
    Hope this photo is viewable.... never uploaded so here it goes...

    Thanks all,
     

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  3. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    lego,looks like the real deal to me.This was the last year they came in cardboard holders and the envelope is certainly genuine.Here is a set from 1956 with the same packaging.
    I found the site it's on and I think $160 is too high for this condition.Look around some more and you'll find it for a lot less.
     

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  4. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    The packing looks ok but I would wonder if the coins have been dipped...

    You see most of the coins in that kind of packing should be toned in all colors...these are darker brown.
    If I were you I would either wait to see coins that are toned neat to know that they are OK or wait to buy one in person.

    Speedy
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I have no idea who the seller is, but just from looking at the pic I have to wonder if that isn't a made up set. The packaging is genuine enough, but I've never seen one of these sets with every coin so lifeless and dull. Not a single coin has the least appearance of luster. I'd definitely pass on this one.
     
  6. claw

    claw Senior Member

    I agree with GDJSMP. Looks made up
    Pre 1959 mint sets are toughies.And if u do find a legit one , condition is usually poor.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    They're not always poor. '58 mint sets are known for producing some of the most spectacularly toned coins of the period from '47 - '58. Quite often the coins have amazing luster under a mix of gorgeous colors - reds, blues, purples - it's all there !! :bow:

    '58 mint sets are almost enough to make me want to collect US again :eek:
     
  8. Just Carl

    Just Carl Numismatist

    I have numerous sets from back then and although the envelope agrees with mine the coins all look like someone either tampered with the set or made up the thing from miscellaneous other sources. It may be real but the tampering look distroys the value. As with most ebay items I'd pass on it if I were you.
     
  9. Doug21

    Doug21 Coin Hoarder

    So the sets from 1947-1958 all had two examples of each coin, then ?

    Is there such a thing as a true unopened mint set from say 1953 ?
     
  10. 10gary22

    10gary22 Junior Member

    I have followed the advice of these guys before and they never steered me wrong. I think you can hit a coin show and buy one that you can have in hand before paying for it. And most dealers have good pricing at the shows. IMHO

    gary
     
  11. EyeEatWheaties

    EyeEatWheaties Cent Hoarder

    ah yep :)

    [​IMG]
     
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Just a minor detail, those aren't Mint Sets.
     
  13. kaosleeroy108

    kaosleeroy108 The Mahayana Tea Shop & hobby center

    gdjmsp:: what are theyt then flat packs?? or repackaged?
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Those are Proof Sets. And back when that picture was originally posted I expressed the idea that I thought the packaging had been re-done. They just look too new, too pristine for sets that had been sitting around for over 50 years. The cardboard should be aged and the tape dried out, yellowed and curled somewhat.
     
  15. EyeEatWheaties

    EyeEatWheaties Cent Hoarder


    I should take another picture of how they have been/they are stored - Sitting around?? naaaa... more like squirrelled away in blanket chests. When I got them, they were in a plastic bag in a paper bag, in a box, inside another box, in a chest! I opened one from each year and remember that yes, they may have been opened and then sealed back up because the tissue seemed to be crinkled and refolded. The staples were rusting and the sleeves are/were still pliable. However what I don't understand is the tape is perfect and I really doubt my grandpop took the time to cut every piece of tape exactly the same. He wasn't that kind of guy. lol... My dad might have, my mom knows nothing and hates coins. lol Sadly my dad and his dad have long passed, so maybe it's just thats the way they were packed?

    I remember the coins were absolutely beautiful (I didn't know what proofs were then) I thought the Lincolns were ruined because they had some wild rose/pink/purple toning. I remember thinking they were worth a zillion bucks.. oh well... I sometimes think about selling them, but at around $200 on eBay, it doesn't seem worth it.

    Since I have had them, they remain buried - rarely moved, . the packaging on these sets has the coins stacked on top of each other! I did recently (bout a year ago) re-pack them in doubled freezer bags and desiccants, box inside a box, because of what I learned after joining forums and learning about storage and stuff.

    So yes they are as new appearing as a raw MSRD 54 Lincoln from a fresh roll.

    It has been a tradition to get 10 or more sets of significant years. My kids Graduation is coming up, I got (25) 1979 Mint sets. Whoopee!!! Proof sets are getting really pricey to do 10, prolly do mint sets for them too. I hope they appreciate them someday. At least my youngest has expressed a fair amount of interest and his own hoard of moderns from pocket change.
     
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But do you know when your grandfather purchased them ?

    I spent many, many years, most of my life collecting original Mint and Proof sets. Buying them from dealers, magazine ads, at shows, on the internet, and from private individuals. And never once did I ever see even a single set where the packaging was in the condition those are in.

    Couple that with the facts that I know for a certainty that counterfeit Mint Sets and Proof sets were manufactured, right down to the fake pliofilm sleeves of the flat packs. That many of the sets like those you picture had the original cellophane sleeves replaced with modern, soft plastic sleeves. And that in many cases the coins themselves were replaced with inferior examples gathered from sources other than the original sets.

    When you have the experience and this knowledge, you begin to question things when you see sets like those in your picture.

    I can't tell you how many times I have seen people bring out coins with the story that - "these have been in my family for generations" - only to find out that the coins were either outright fakes or altered coins. But of course everybody thinks that in their case, this could not possibly be true, that their case is somehow different.

    Well, there are cases where it is different. Where the coins, the sets, the whatever, are genuine. But there are far more of them where they are not.
     
  17. EyeEatWheaties

    EyeEatWheaties Cent Hoarder

    I understand. I have had these since the mid 90's - I have no idea of when he gt them. There also '36, '41, '50 '51 etc- those are singles and in little worse wear. They were package 5 together until I repackage them.

    You got me curious to at least look at the coins again in the ones I opened. The coins were really nice and appear mint fresh. If these are fake packaging, I don't get why someone would put such nice coins in them. So what you are saying is I should put my grubby hands all over them, bake then under a HPS light, tear a few corners and dent some edges to make them look legit?

    Help me understand, why were there counterfeit packages made? What do the box proof sets sell for anyhow? Anyone?
     
  18. WingedLiberty

    WingedLiberty Well-Known Member

    Case in point ...

    1958D_Franklin_Half.jpg


    Here is original 1958 mint set packaging
    (note the toning on the coins)

    1958_Mint_Set_Cardboard_Sml.jpg
     
  19. seasnake

    seasnake Junior Member

    I bought a '58 double mint set from my local B+M store about a year ago, paid $400 for it. Sent the better coins in to NGC and sold the rest raw. Total value (quesstimate) $800 including the 1958 ms67*fbl half which I value at the price of the total set. Yours looks picked over and the good ones replaced, just my feeling.
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Very simple - because people like to gamble.

    The standard ebay ploy is to offer "unopened" Proof sets. In many cases, because some people actually believe the nonsense, these "unopened" sets will sell for much higher prices because people are willing to gamble that there might be Cameo coins inside these "unopened" sets.

    The funny thing is, these boxed sets like this are the only chance anyone ever has of actually buying a truly unopened set. Because they were the only sets that ever actually WERE sealed by the mint.

    So the scenario is this. These sets are not that hard to come by. Pretty much any show of any size will have a dozen or so of these sets, sometimes more, available. But because the sets have been so picked over and sold and resold so many times over the years, the coins inside are very, very seldom Cameo. So - the soon to be unscrupulous seller goes around and buys up the sets. Then repackages them in new cardboard boxes and new packing tape. Both are easy to come by.

    Then he will either offer them for sale, at a substantial premium, on ebay or at another coin show. When people see them their eyes light up and they get excited. Thinking that if they by them they might, just might, get lucky and find Cameo coins in these "unopened" sets.

    Now the Proof of this happening is pretty simple. All you have to do is buy one, and when you open it if it has the soft plastic coin sleeves inside, then you know that you have been taken. Or - if when you open it the original cellophane coin sleeves are all dried out and crinkly, maybe even cracked open in places, then again you know you have been taken.

    Why ? Because if the box really was unopened and had the original packaging then the cellophane sleeves will be in just as good of shape as the outer box and tape. But the odds of finding Camoe coins is still about nil. And of course the original sets never had the soft plastic sleeves, so that one is a slam dunk.

    As for how much they cost, it's been some years since I have purchased any but even back then each set could sell for hundreds of dollars with the '50 sets being the most exspensive and the '55s the cheapest. But even the '55 would often be $200. And that was 8-10 years ago.
     
  21. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I know very little about the boxed proof sets but thought the date was stamped on the tape in large type.

    I'm also wondering something about the 1955 double mint sets. Did these come in the soft plastic sleeves?
    I have a set in the soft sleeves and figured it had been repackaged.
     
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