I will give you the general answer and that is "yes", cleaing a coin generally decreases its value. This decrease might be as much as 90% of the value lost. Of course, someone will come on here to tell you that there are specific instances of cleaning being beneficial, but unless you know mighty well what you are doing it is a very poor idea.
Yes it will, It,s generally understood that any cleaning will decrease The value especially if it,s done wrong!!
As a matter of fact, the top of the pile grading services has their own code/terminology for "improperly cleaned" coins and will refuse to grade them. Thy do however keep your fee. Happy Collecting
That is quite true, if it is done wrong. But - if it is done correctly, it often increases the value. People always seem to use the word "clean", or any of its forms, incorrectly. It is extremely important to realize that there is cleaning and there is harsh/improper cleaning. And if you do not distinguish between the two, not only are you misleading those who don't understand this, but you are also indicating that you possibly don't understand it either. When it comes right down to it dipping a coin is cleaning. But dipping coins is an acceptable practice in the numismatic community that if done correctly does not harm the coin in any way. And most experts estimate that fully 80% or more of all older coins, particularly silver, have been dipped at one time or another in their lives. Now this does not mean that I personally advocate dipping coins, I don't, unless the dipping is done to prevent possible damage. But it does mean that it is an extremely widespread practice in the numismatic community that continues on a daily basis. Then you have companies like NCS that you can pay to conserve (just another word for cleaning) your coins. And their work quite often increases the value of the coins. So does dipping at times for that matter. Rinsing coins in acetone, or some other solvent, is also cleaning. But that too has its benefits and can help increase a coin's value, or prevent damage to the coin that would decrease value. Same can be said for using proprietary products to remove verdigris from coins. All of these things are "cleaning", but they are not harmful to the coins and they do not decrease the value of the coins. COnversely, they quite often increase the value of the coins. But as has been stated, they must be done by someone who knows what they are doing and they must be done correctly. It is harsh, or improper cleaning that is harmful to coins. And there more ways to do it than you can count. Even the methods I mentioned above can be harsh/improper cleaning if done incorrectly. All of these, without exception, will cause a coin to lose value. So as I said in the beginning, it is extremely important to differentiate between "cleaning" and "harsh/improper" cleaning.
If you watch the TV show called the Antique Road Show you would hear many timess that statement "If you hadn't cleaned this, it would be worth many, many times more". In other words as a general statement, not necessarily for everything on Earth, old things should not be cleaned. Think of it like this. When they open an old Egyptian Tomb, they don't hire a cleaning company to come out and clean it all up.
I agree, but I don't agree with your terminology. There's a difference between cleaning and conserving a coin. Cleaning - A harsh process that permanently alters the coin surface resulting in a market unacceptable coin. Conserving - A careful, scientific process that removes undesirable surface features without damaging the surface, resulting in a market acceptable coin. IMO, it's really that simple.
OK - so what do you call a collector or dealer dipping a coin with unsightly toning ? If you want to call that a careful, scientific process - I think you'd be standing alone Thad. Doesn't really matter, it's just semantics anyway. Outside of NCS, an archeology lab, and someone talking in reference to either one of those, I don't know of a handful of people who would use the term conserving anyway. And as has been discussed here many times, pretty much everybody just considers conserving as a fancy name for cleaning. I'll stick to cleaning and harsh/improper cleaning. That covers it all
Assuming it's done properly, does not damage the surface and coin is market acceptable afterward, it's conservation.
Do I remember right from your earlier postings that doing dipping correctly is something that requires unusual expertise and that most people fail at?
Yes. If you want to see some improperly dipped coins, take a look at about 50% of the Morgan dollars listed on ebay. Many inexperienced sellers think that more is better, and leave the coins in the solution way too long. So you get an otherwise uncirculated coin which originally had sometoning or dullness to it, and turned it into a clean, bright white coin with almost no luster remaining.
It's not that it requires unusual expertise, but it does require a certain level of expertise. As I have always said, anybody can dip the coin, that's the easy part. Here's a list of what you need to know. 1 - you have to have the experience to be able to tell what coins can benefit from dipping and what coins cannot benefit. 2 - you have to know which dip to use to achieve the best results, there are many to choose from. 3 - you have to know how long, or how many times to dip the coin. It varies greatly from coin to coin. 4 - you have to know how to rinse the coin correctly, and in what so as to remove any traces of the dip itself and neutralize the action of the dip. Now there are many people who know how to do this, thousands of them in fact. So for that reason I would not say that is an unusual level of expertise.
OK - here's why I would say it is not. To me, the difference between conservation and dipping is - - that with conservation you retain the original qualities of the coin, including toning, while removing any detrimental effects. - with dipping, you remove the detrimental effects and any toning thus completely changing the original qualities of the coin. With your way of thinking Thad you would have to have 3 terms - conservation, cleaning and harsh/improper cleaning. With my way of thinking you only need two. Because since conservation does not harm the coin, and cleaning does not harm the coin, they can be lumped together under the single term cleaning. Then you have the harsh/improper cleaning. That way everything is covered under 2 terms. It's simpler.
Basically correct. Most people have a tendancy to overkill on things due to no experience, impatience, lack of research, etc. There are many, many examples of this in everyday life. For example I've seen people wax thier cars almost every month using auto waxes that contain cleaners. The cleaners are usually strong enough to remove the last layer of wax so basically a waste of time, money but good excersize. People every day kill house plants with excessive watering due to someone telling them to remember to water your plants so they do over and over and over. That is part of the problem saying a dip in something for a coin is OK. Not seeing the entire picture or remembering all, there will be some that will DIP a coin in battery acid, Walmart jewlery cleaners, dish soaps, Drano, etc. That famous Acetone dip too can be erroneously performed. I've known individuals that have used the same Acetone for paint brushes, cleaning tools and then dipping a coin in it and wondering how we here can be so dumb as to say it was OK. This is why it is sometimes much better to say leave sleeping dogs lie. IF you don't know if they bite, why test them?
I would prefer my coins to not be dipped and don't engage in the process. I like old things and have always been drawn to antiques. To me coins are small antiques that don't fill up my house like old furniture or knickknacks. I have been tought to see older items for what they are and to never meddle with them. A person would be wise to stay away from chipped and repaired glass, refinished wood, and tricked up coins. It takes years to develope an antique finish on wood that is created by cooking grease, cig smoke and hand oils etc. and if that was removed and replaced you would only have wood. Same goes for coins, once a patina is dipped off, all you have is silver/copper. I personaly prefer a brown copper coin to one that has been recolored ( I still dont know how or why this is done, but it is an unacceptable strange orange color)and gravitate towards toned silver even if it is black and mottled helping me feel it was dipped one less time. If a coin has corrosion or some weird spot, I pass. Take a stroll down any major bourse floor and you'll quickly see there are thousands of coins to buy that don't need conservation. Many more than any one man can own. JMO.
Yes and No. People really have little knowledge of the many differences in Soap and Waters. If you go to almost any store and look for soaps, you would see many, many different types and all are really different. Manufacturers seldom, if ever, really tell you what is in their products due to forulae theft. They keep the exact information secret since it is rather proprietary. And since you really don't know what is in the soaps you are considering, that is something you just don't want to attempt. Oddly enough even water is different everywhere. Again, even at a store on the shelves are numersous different types of water today. Well water, spring water, baby safe water, drinking water and on and on and on. Sort of funny when you hear of those organizations that simply fill bottles with tap water and sell for $1/bottle. And if you use a water softener at home, it conains NaCl so it too should not be used for plants. Tap water in most areas contain Chlorine or Fluorine and should be left standing for 24 hours prior to using on house plants to allow those gasses to evaporate. In other words although soap and water may or may not be considered harsh cleaning of a coin, the substances in those items may actually distroy the coin.
