Someone copying my coin to sell on Ebay????

This is the image the seller has posted, actual size and all.
I'm going to bid 3 bucks and send it back to him because he can't send me the same coin that is shown in the listing. The guy ships for free and has a return policy so all I'll be out is the postage back to him. I am a bit worried the guy may not know how to refund me with paypal. That could really be bad. I may need a lawyer to take care of this before it's over.

 

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^^

you will have to beat my $100 bid!!

to the op....

thanks for listing your coin auction! this is the missing coin of my collection and from what the picture tells me, it fits in perfect!!

and if ebay doesn't do anything about this i will be mad. i had a brand new in the box subwoofer. i used my own pictures of the outside of the box, but didn't want to open it up. not knowing any better at the time, i used kickers stock photo of the actual subwoofer :headbang:. i even listed why i used it. i understood after they closed the auction and i wasn't allowed to sell for sometime that i was wrong. i just didn't think they would care, or it was a problem. this is totally different though, he is telling people this is the coin they get and the auction is still there!!

 

I notice the listing is still there despite what I assume have been numerous reports to eBay.

It has been my experience that eBay doesn't care if a seller steals pictures from sites other than eBay. The one exception is when they use, say, a picture of a genuine 1804 Silver Dollar and act like they own it to sell.

 

buyer beware always rules

I've probably won over 2000 auctions on EBAY, and had one experience where the coin photo was obviously "borrowed". I bid on an AU 1909S VDB penny - looked great. The seller closed the auction early (didn't know they were allowed to do that), and the seller was relatively new to EBAY - only had a single digit rating. In short, I paid for the coin but didn't receive it. I used paypal, but it wasn't covered under their protection policy (I suppose because the seller was a new user). The seller then figured they could get out of it by mailing me (in a plain envelope, with the corner cleverly slit so the coin included would fall out in shipping) a loose wheat penny (1953). The penny stayed in the envelope, but all signs were of someone fraudulently borrowing a coin photo for the auction.

Lessons learned:

1. Don't buy from a new seller on ebay.
2. Pay with Paypal, but only if the auction states that the Paypal protection plan is in effect.
3. Don't trust EBAY to resolve the issue - they just referred me to the internet fraud websites.
4. If the auction description is in broken English - well, you know where that is going.
5. Check any package you receive for damage BEFORE you sign off on it. If it is damaged, note it on the delivery confirmation - you will need it later as evidence when you plead your case.

Hope this helps somenone avoid one of my bad experiences on EBAY. Overall, I am happy with my EBAY experiences, but buyer beware is appropriate.

 

Good points. Rule #1 is not always correct. The biggest sellers on ebay had to have their first sale to get up to 20,000 items sold. Sometimes new sellers put wrong verbiage in their title, so the exposure is minimal, can lead to bargains.

 

My apologies to everyone on this site...

I was not aware of how serious copyright law could be, so as soon as I read this post, I went to facebook and untagged any photos that I had tagged for others to see... I deleted all the coin pictures I had, since I am sure either the original sculptors, or atleast the mint must have a copyright on these images... I also called all my family members and friends and asked them if it was okay to keep the likenesses of them that I had in my family photo albums since I didn't have the expressed written consent from each of them... I am embarrassed to admit that I also had a recording of yesterday's Braves game waiting for me at home so that I could watch it later, but I deleted it without watching it since I didn't have permission from MLB... Anyway, I hope you guys won't be too hard on me for my sins...

Seriously though, your image is protected the moment you make it, but you can't file suit for infringement unless you register your copyright of the picture in question... So you should get on that... Also, you posted your picture to a public forum so you gave up some of your rights there, though that is all still very gray in the eyes of the courts... His use of your picture for commercial gain, albeit $2, would likely cause a court to side in your favor, however... But more to the point, why do you really care?.. I believe that the guy just didn't have a camera and used a photo that he was able to find, and figured the owner of the picture would not care since it was posted on the internet for the entire world to see... It is not like he posted a picture of a one-of-a-kind item and them claimed to own it personally for the sake of reselling it... No doubt, it looked close enough to the coin he WAS selling that he felt like he wasn't misrepresenting the merchandise... If he had pulled a picture of an ms66 example from somewhere, it might be different but he just pulled some random pic of a common coin in mediocre condition... Clearly there is some over-reaction going on here... And by the way, it is perfectly acceptable under ebay policy to use a stock photo but they recommend you use an actual photo of an item if it is flawed in some way... It is not fraud to show a 'representation' of an item you are selling as long as it is a fair representation of the item, and the picture is not copyrighted... So it wasn't fraudulent in that way... So what we are down to is a minor infraction of copyright law, on a coin that you don't have a registered copyright for, which you probably would have given him permission to use anyway if he had asked... Sounds like a petty complaint to me... Give the guy a break and let him make his $2.00... He might need some similac for the kids, and do you want to be the one costing the man his living... A simple message to him on the ebay system reminding him that permission is required to use your photo would have been MORE than sufficient... Calling the man 'lazy', 'dishonest', and 'a criminal' is pretty harsh...

And by the way, how do we go about selling a book, or a record album, or a cd, or any other such thing on ebay anyway?.. These all have cover art that is copyrighted... Do we always go to the publishers of the artwork and get permission first?.. Really?..

B

 

I agree with everything you're saying, and think this has been blown way out of proportion. However, at least with coins, it is ABSOLUTELY against Ebay policy to use stock photos.

 

I appreciate the support... But also, I have read and reread the ebay policies more times than I care to admit and stock photos are allowed on ungraded, non-replica coins. Under guidelines only, it is recommended that you use an actual photo, but stock photos are allowed. Graded coins and replica coins MUST have actual photos...

Double-check me on that, though...

 

I agree but petty is an understatement.

 

Raw and uncertified coins A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by an authorized grading company. Sellers can list these items on eBay as long as:

• A numeric grade (such as MS-65, VF-25) is not included in the title of the listing. A numeric grade can only be included in the item description.
  
• No grading company is referenced in the title or description.
  
• No estimate of value (even if personal opinion) or reference to a price guide is included in the title or description.
  
• The listing includes a photo of the coin being sold. Images that are dark, out of focus, edited, or might be misleading aren't allowed. Also, stock photos aren't allowed.
  

Here's the link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html

 

This listing (280499148735) has been removed, or this item is not available.

Told ya, it does not matter the value of the item, if the seller is not playing by the rulez...poofers!

Happy Collecting...you win!

 

Here is the thing, when you buy an ungraded coin on ebay you expect to get the coin that is shown in the picture. I think it is wrong to say this is the coin you are getting and that not being the actual coin. If he had said this is not cactual coin but coin will be similar, then I wouldnt have as much of a problem with, ebay would but I wouldnt.

 

...and you are a lawyer??? Petty as it may seem to you it is a matter of principal. One day YOU just might get a coin or whatever off ebay that isn't pictured as the actual item. By the way, I never said I was going to sue anyone for infringement, better read the thread again, "so you should get on that".

 

sometimes it's confusing

often times when we read the written word we cannot judge people's intentions or body language. I'm sure no harm was meant but I can tell you from firsthand knowledge there are people on eBay who sell things they do not even own.

Another instance of the lifting or counterfeiting of others coins happened to me last week. I purchased an 1895 San Francisco Morgan in a PC GS slab. As I was beaming with pride I posted the photos on another forum and low and behold somebody posted the same coin with the same exact serial number from the heritage house auction site. All the information has been sent to PC GS and they are investigating the matter.

So just an FYI people will do anything for money these days as there are many people who are simply hungry!:hatch:

 

Hey bud, thanks for the heads up... Just so ya know I was trying to do some due diligence and wasn't just guessing, I show you the following quote from the very same page:
What are the guidelines?

Coins and paper money


Keep the following guidelines in mind when you’re listing coins and paper money:

• <LI class=unorderedList>Include all relevant information that you know about the item, such as origin, date of issue, and condition.
  
  <LI class=unorderedList>Include a clear picture of the actual item being sold—don’t use only stock pictures. You can add up to 12 photos to your Collectibles listings for free.
  
  <LI class=unorderedList>Include all information about any alterations that may have been made to the item.
  
  <LI class=unorderedList>Individually identify every item listed to avoid misunderstandings about what is for sale.
  
• Don’t list the item if you’re unsure of its origin or authenticity.
  

Bold and italics mine...

But I will definitely keep it in mind for future reference...

And to the original poster... I am not a lawyer... Don't want to be, but I can read, and I get to have an opinion because I am an adult and I have earned the right... Not to mention, I happen to be pretty fair and objective if I do say so myself... And what I said stands... On PURE PRINCIPLE for all you puritans out there, you are RIGHT... Fine! Be right! And sleep well knowing that you have called out a fellow human on making a mistake, and as you go off to your peaceful sleep to dream about the perfect society you are trying to create, ask yourself if you have ever done anything 'outside the law' for your own benefit because it was easier or better for you? Have you ever borrowed a movie that another friend rented so you wouldn't have to rent it yourself and then return it when you were done? Do you count every penny you make and make sure to pay your taxes diligently? Ever been to a casino or bought a scratchoff ticket and made sure to track it in a journal when you won $5 like the IRS demands of you? (Federal law, by the way)... Have you ever driven 58 mph in a 55 mph zone? Have you ever recorded a television show to watch later without the permission of the owners of the material? Have you ever downloaded a picture from the internet and shown a buddy?

These are all rhetorical questions as I already know the answers, as do we all... Our ebay buddy was trying to make a buck on a coin and probably doesn't even own a camera or scanner, so you can call him out on general principle all you like, but remember that one day you will be judged by the same standard as the one you use to judge, and I personally feel I need to show a little impathy and mercy to people on occasion as I have a lot to be forgiven for myself... And maybe just one last thought for you... Oil companies through greed and carelessness have likely cost the livelihood of THOUSANDS of families along the Gulf Coast, not to mention the lives of the men that were on the rig... How do you suppose those families feel about your stolen penny picture?.. All I am asking for is a little perspective bro...

 

I still dont think you are getting our point. How would you feel if you bought a coin off of ebay that was not slabbed and it turned out to be not the one pictured. The problem is not that he stole the picture but that he did not say that the coin listed is not the coin you are getting. There are so many people on ebay that are trying to get over on people all the time. If he had just said that this was a stock photo and not the coin you are getting, I dont think so many people here would have such a problem. But by making people assume the coin in the picture is the coin you are getting, that is dishonest.
BTW, What is goin on with the oil rig is terrible. IN fact it is affecting a few of my friends a little further south. My question is, what does that have to do with the subject at hand. That, I dont understand

 

I think it would have been interesting if someone had taken the seller up on his offer to send better images. Wonder if the guy would have taken the time to take his own images or just rip them again.
Any chance anyone here got the new images from the guy? I was thinking how funny it would be if he actually was selling a high grade small date.

 

I don't use the oil rig story lightly... It was very pertinent to the discussion... Whoever was responsible for the safety and soundness of those rigs has committed a great wrong... It is a terrible thing that so many will suffer for the bad decisions of a small group of men, likely because of greed... When we speak of something being wrong on principle, we still need to allow room for the fact that some things, while wrong, can be overlooked... I just think there was a significant overreaction to the use of a mediocre picture of a common coin without permission... Other wrongs, like the oil rig disaster, MUST be corrected.... Someone MUST be called to account for the lives and livelihoods lost...

And I didn't miss your point at all... But keep in mind, there is no mention on the entire first page of posts that the seller even claimed it was the coin to be received and yet on the first page there is a post of "That is definitely false advertising!" which at that point was unproven or even unmentioned... It all just reeked of emotional over-reaction... Just finding something to be fussing about...

As to your point though, if I bid on a coin and the value of the coin was largely based on the condition of the coin, I would want to depend on the picture of the coin and thereby would certainly ask if it was the actual coin to be received... If I received a coin that varied from the picture after being assured otherwise, that would be fraud, and I would be mildly annoyed, or maybe even upset... But if I am out scouting around looking for cents to pick up for under a buck and a guy is showing me a pic of an ef 1970-s lincoln AT BEST, I am not particularly concerned if the one I get is the one in the pic, since they are both worthless... Using a little common sense, we have to ask, what is a guys motive for listing the picture of an EF coin instead of the one he has?... Really... I mean, he is still going to send you a 1970-s presumably, and it likely would be near in condition to the one in the picture... If he slips you an AG coin instead, he will make a hefty profit off his scam somewhere in the neighborhood of a nickel... Do we really think he was scamming? Really? If the guy is trying to fraudulently sell coins he doesn't own, why wouldn't he just use MS-66 examples from this very same forum.... The guy is not a crook, he is just not well equipped for selling on Ebay...

IMO

 

I agree with some of your points and some of them I do not. I actually did say that I did not like the fact that he listed the coin and did not say this is not actual coin. It may not be on first page but it was before your first post.
Speaking of fussing to be fussing. YOu have made numerous lengthy posts on this thread "fussing" about this thread. If it were me and I didnt like the way a thread was going, I would just click a button and go to another thread.
This is just my opinion.

 

Ah finance, if you knew me, you would know that I just enjoy the discussion... Nothing said here upset me... I like that I can learn from all you guys, but a little lively debate here and there is good for the soul... Really, in my first post I was just trying to lighten things up a bit... No offense intended or taken, and I eventually read virtually EVERY post on this site... I am addicted...

Evening to ya, friend.


B