Is this natural tonning???

It does when some toned stuff in no problem holders sometimes sells for 10 times retail...

There is motivation to try.

 

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If a person sells an artificially toned coin and knows its AT.... then promotes it as naturally toned just to get a premium price, that constitute's some kind of fraud, correct?

 

Wow! So for those who can't understand toning or why people collect them, would you buy mechanically made diamond or a real one that has been in the ground for thousands and even hundreds of thousands of years buried in the ground? Or is a gold replica coin instead of a gold minted coin?

You just can't compare an AT to an NT coin and only years of absorbing knowledge from more experienced collectors and years of studying them in hand will you only be able to identify such beautiful and unique coins. Sure there are some colorful AT coins out there (which I don't find appealing at all) but why buy something unnatural and worth nothing but it's metal value?

Sure you can buy AT coins if that's what you like and have little to no knowledge but in the long run, you're only throwing money way IMO. I rather save money and buy something as unique as a toned mercury dime than have a chemically altered coin with no future value.

Believe me, there are many AT coin sellers out there and lots of people still buying them, mostly unsuspecting collectors but I've also seen their sales go down because people are starting to open there eyes regarding this issue. Any ways, I don't go further anymore explaining much about how toning accurs, lays on the flow lines of the coin, how it reflects of the coin differently from that of an AT one etc....

Enjoy what you collect but you should always collect something original and whatever grade you want. I'm not saying that they are cheap but the cheap ones are not nice either

 

Yes you are talking as if they are both the same whether you add a chemical or not and that is not correct. Also, you cannot compare them because it's a totally different reaction to the coins metal. This is what makes all this people go out of their way and think that buying fake, AT coins is ok when in reality is a disgrace to the collecting community.

True, you can't "always" tell but yes you can learn to tell many tell tale signs and differences between both AT and NT coins if you have enough knowledge and years of experience in collecting them.

Maybe you see them as you say. Basically saying they are the same as Mr. Hall says all toned Peace dollars are AT, but that is your opinion and not agreeing here what so ever. Telling others that you can't tell (100%) the differences is not true at all and is very misleading to new collectors of this kind of collectibles IMO.

Then again, I am always against people who say and compare such things and consider them "the same." I am always against AT coin sellers as well and believe that they should be eliminated from everywhere this coins are sold whether it's their lively hood or not.

With this said, it is only my opinion and I still ask other, more experienced collectors for help and advice when in doubt.

 

Rigo,

I agree with Doug on this issue. You can't always tell and because you can't tell, it does not make a difference to me. However, I am not naive enough to think that the rest of the numismatic community agrees with me on this issue. Therefore, I accept and follow the rule of market acceptability. Basically, if the TPG's deemed the coin market acceptable and graded the coin, that is good enough for me. Remember that market acceptability is not a guarantee of NT or AT. I think of it as an insurance policy for toned coins.

The danger is that the TPG's must retain the confidence of the consumer base that they are doing a good job weeding out the really questionable toned coins. Without it, the entire toned coin market could collapse just like many predict. Those that predict the impending doom of market usually call it a fad. They are wrong in that regard. Paying premiums for toned coins with exceptional eye appeal has always happened. But the advent of the internet and improved digital photography technology caused the market, including the prices, to explode within the last decade. The toned coin market has a very loyal base and is growing every day. The real threat to toned coins is the realization/belief by the entire toned coin base that what they have been collecting and paying premiums for is fake. If that happens, we can kiss premium prices goodbye for toned coins.

 

I think I could tell the difference. Somebody want to bake some coins up and run a test?:eat:

 

The point is that nobody can tell the difference between a skilled coin doctor's work and the real thing. Picking out coins that were experimented on by amateur coin doctors and chemists is easy. For Example:




But I am sure even these two coins would fool some people.

 

edited

 

Uh...

 

bottom one is real IMO
if not serve up the crow:eat:

 

Do you care to revise your original statement sir?




BTW, the intent of this exercise was meant all in good fun.

 

what the heck? that wasnt even a dime:whistle:

This crow doesnt taste half bad:eating:

although we dont know if the bottom is natural or not.

 

When you see it in hand, there is no doubt that the coin is AT. Don't worry, you will get your chance.

 

True sir but also read that I did mention you can't always tell. I should know that by now and follow that fact all the time. My intentions towards Doug were not anything bad towards his believe and opinions but just a non agreeable opinion from me. Besides, if we don't debate certain things and speak our thoughts and opinions, how are we suppose to learn and pass our knowledge?

Any who, I agree with you guys until a certain point and I guess we can't always agree 100% about this subject but advertising that you can't tell with such certainty is not what I believe in.

There are coins that would fool almost anyone like this one which is very hard to tell but does have it's tale tell signs of some real good work. But would I buy it just because it looks nice? Absolutely NOT!



But many people would be fooled and buy it, even pay a high price for such a coin and this is what I try to preach when I can.

LOL.... Thanks for not attacking but for debating with respect.

 

Stuff like this makes me wanna get my 1921 Morgan slabbed because it's got some nice toning on it.

 

you are slipping in your old age. all you need to do is tell which gases to use and we will have created a monster

 

Not for me. Bottom screams AT even though the back has proper progress of toning. What gives it away is all the hairlines and brushstrokes visible on the observe. The reverse coloring sits on the surface doesn't blend with the coin.
So bottom us fake. Top is consistent with rosie toning. And have a full role of monster toned rosies.

As a chemist major I know how they produce their coloring on the coin so well. I ATD two coins a Peace dollar and a walker. Both came back from the TPG graded and slabbed. I henceforth broke them out and dipped them. Back to blast white.


It takes about 2 hours per coin except for nickels you only need 15-25 mins for them.
While coin doctor would be profitable. I am quite happy with my 2 stores and would hate to defraud people. The more you know, the less their profits.

 

Thanks for the heads up Paul. Which are your stores if I may ask?