Can anyone help in identifying this coin? I cannot recognise the obverse inscription. The reverse indicates Qing origin - Board of Revenue. Coin, charm or fantasy?
Sorry, no help there. It's not one of the recognised Qing Emperors, that's why I can't place it. Can't see anything like it in Hartill, Schjoth or Krause.
It's certainly not anything you will find in the standard Chinese coin references. At first, I thought it might be from Java (Indonesia). But as bad as the calligraphy is on your coin it is still better than that on the Java coins. Also, and without knowing any of the specifications such as diameter and weight, I feel your coin is larger and heavier than the coins cast in Java. The reverse side of your coin looks good. Coins from Java are equally poor on obverse and reverse. Finally, your coin seems to my eyes as having fake patina and then only on the obverse side. So, I do not think your coin is from Java or, for different reasons, Annam (Vietnam). The calligraphy on your coin is really poorly done which makes trying to guess the Chinese characters a real challenge. If I had to guess, however, I would say that the inscription reads clockwise as "xiang fu yuan bao". "Xiang fu yuan bao" was the inscription used on coins cast during the years 1008-1016 of the reign of Emperor Zhen Zong (998-1022) of the Northern Song Dynasty. If you look at this Northern Song "xiang fu yuan bao" you will see that the character strokes are similar although not exactly the same. My best guess, though, is that this is the inscription your coin is modeled after. Song Dynasty coins, of course, did not have Manchu characters on the reverse side. As you know, only the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) coins had such characters. We know your coin is not from the Song or Qing dynasties so it is either a charm or a fantasy coin. If we assume that the inscription is supposed to be "xiang fu yuan bao", one possible translation would be "good luck" (xiang) "charm" (fu) "great" (yuan) "treasure" (bao). This translation certainly has the characteristic of a charm but the lack of any auspicious symbols makes me doubt that the piece was intended for this purpose. I feel that your coin is most probably a fantasy piece. The fake patina on one side only, the lack of any wear, the presence of file marks from the final processing of the coin, etc. also make me feel that the piece is not old. Having said all this, your coin could still be from Java. Just today there is a coin posted on eBay with the inscription "xiang fu yuan bao" and with Manchu characters (albeit different from yours) on the reverse side. You may view the coin here. Gary
I don't think the inscription is Xiang Fu Yuan bao. The left-hand character is definitely Bao. Right hand, while similar to Fu is not Fu according to Chinese friends - they don't know what it is. The bottom character is Jiu (9). Top character unreadable. When I get the coin in hand (next wek probably) I will post weight & diameter and better scans if possible.
Your Chinese friends have actually proved the point. The calligraphy is so bad that even they cannot recognize the Chinese characters. It's not a question of the characters being worn, covered in patina, or not clear. It's that the characters are not written correctly. The truth of the matter is that there are no Chinese characters on the coin at all. We all seem to agree that the character on the left is bao. However, we are only "guessing" that it is bao. Bao is never written with two "wang (king)" characters side-by-side beneath the "top hat" as is the case with your coin. I know you have the Hartill book so let's use it for this discussion. If you look at pages iv and v you will see a variety of bao characters. None of them have two "wang" characters written side-by-side. So, what we are calling "bao" on the coin really is not "bao". Your Chinese friends are incorrect about the bottom character being the number nine (jiu). If you look on page xvi of Hartill's book you will see that the number nine (jiu) is written in only two strokes. One stroke goes straight down and then sweeps to the left. The second stroke, beginning at the left, goes horizontal to the right and then immediately goes straight down and then rises upward at the very end. The second stroke that I just described is one continuous stroke. The bottom character on your coin, the character your Chinese friends say is nine (jiu), could not have been written in less than three strokes. You can see that the horizontal stroke stops. The stroke that goes downward and then back up at the end is completely separate from the horizontal stroke. If fact, it does not even touch the horizontal stroke and is even indented inwards to the left. No Chinese would ever write nine (jiu) in this manner. Ask your Chinese friends and see if they don't agree. However, we all know that yuan is very commonly found in this position on a coin. And, if someone did not know how to write Chinese very well, he might very easily write yuan the way it is on your coin. If you look at the yuan character on Hartill's 16.52 "xiang fu yuan bao" rubbing you will see that it is "similar" to that on your coin. It is definitely not a number "nine". Also, I have never seen nine (jiu) written in the inscription of a Chinese coin. The only place you will see it is on the reverse side of Southern Song coins, and perhaps others, to indicate the year of the reign title. If you look at such examples in Hartill's book you will find that nine is only written the way I described above. You will not find an example where the right downward stroke is disconnected from the end of the horizontal stroke as is the case with your coin. Your Chinese friends confirm that they cannot read the character to the right of the square hole but that it is similar to "fu". Again, none of the characters on the coin are written correctly so if your intention is to figure out what the inscription is meant to be then you will have to make your best guess. My best guess, and I think even your friend's best guess, would be that the character was meant to be "fu". Finally, your Chinese friends cannot read the top character. That's because, like the other characters on the obverse, it is not written correctly and therefore is not, strictly speaking, Chinese. My best guess is that this character is "xiang" which it resembles. I believe that the inscription on the obverse side was intended to be a real historical coin inscription but written by someone who clearly could not write Chinese correctly (or perhaps had other reasons to make the characters appear difficult to comprehend). The only inscription that I am aware of that would come even close to resembling the "characters" on your coin is "xiang fu yuan bao" for the reasons stated above. I did not comment about the coin's very broad rim in my first post. There is a very rare and famous variety of "xiang fu yuan bao" with a very broad rim such as on your coin. Hartill identifies it as 16.56 on page 131. I believe your coin is intended to mimic this variety, and in so doing provides additional proof that the inscription on your coin is intended to be, or based on, "xiang fu yuan bao". I feel that your coin, with the illegibly written Chinese on the obverse and the Manchu on the reverse, is not a "real" coin but rather a fantasy piece for all the reasons I have discussed. Your Chinese friends cannot read it, either, and it is not because they cannot see the characters clearly. I doubt that better scans will make any difference. The fact is that the characters on the obverse are not really Chinese so the best one can do is "guess". It has been fun discussing this coin but, as I said in my first post, the best I can do is "guess" what the inscription was "modeled" after. I look forward to seeing what other forum members may think the inscription is. Gary
Amazing, manymore. Sounds like the coin is lucky its Chinese characters are as close as they are! Could've been even worse since it's not a real coin. At least they tried
As promised, a new clearer scan of the obverse is attached. It makes Manymore's theory look to be correct, The coin(?) is 23.8mm and 3.1g.
An almost identical coin is listed on the Xeno.ru database - ref # 81628. Mine is a bit larger and lighter, but the calligraphy is the same. The coin is said to have been unearthed in Ukraine, as has another similar coin! Mine came from USA, so I don't know where it was found.
