I very much want to purchase this coin, but the seller has disclosed that the counterstamp may have been struck with the coin, implying that it’s some sort of copy. Looking at the counterstamp, I am unsure. If the counterstamp occurred after it was struck, this is a really awesome piece of history. If not, it’s a copy that would disappoint me. What are your thoughts?
Got a few questions: 1. Why do you want to purchase this coin? 2. Can you show us an un-stamped version for comparison? 3. Is the counterstamp a known, verifiable counterstamp? Was it a government issued stamp? Was it some sort of tribal/revolutionary/provincial stamp? 4. Are there known counterfeits of this coin and stamp? 5. Could you explain for those of us who don't know, why this is "a really awesome piece of history"?
If the counterstamp was struck at the same time as the coin then there should not be a buldge or some kind of displaced metal opposite of the counterstamp is my wild guess.
Most high-quality counterfeits are fairly comprehensive. They'll reproduce every detail on both sides in high fidelity. Even an electrotype from a couple hundred years ago did that.
Great questions that I really wanted to hold off on and focus on the coin, but I’m happy to answer. 1. I’m moving to Belgium in the near future and have been reading up on their history. This would be my first coin that reflects my new home and studies. 2. I don’t think so. Edit: no, but here is another 2 Stuiver example: https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2421&lot=80 Here’s a link to a certified 1/2 Stuiver: https://www.ebay.com/itm/184995689201 Here’s another example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces178569.html 3. The counterstamp is known and was controlled by the government. 4. I don’t have enough knowledge of this to be sure. The seller is quite reputable and would not disclose the concern unless it could be legitimate. 5. If real, this coin would have been struck in Deventer, by the Count of Renneberg, during the siege of Deventer in 1578, where the Dutch defeated the German troops fighting foe the Spanish, who controlled the region at the time. This would have them be demonetized with this stamp after the battle ended and the coins were recovered.
Even as a forgery it looks like it has a nice skin, good details. If the dealer is willing to let it go for a song to you. I might go for it. Nothing like a good venture into another area of numismatics. I once wish I would have bought a 79CC/CC Morgan, the weight was off, had slightly mirrored surfaces and a little frosty. I would have loved it for the black cabinet. The dealer wasn't willing to break even.
OP why does the seller belive the counterstamp may have been struck with the coin? There must be a reason for his concern.
I am not an expert on world coins or counterstamps. That stamp looks like it was added after the coin was struck. You can see some of the wing details in the struck area on the reverse. Just my 2 cents
The counterstamp was definitely added to an already struck coin but it's hard to know if it's legitimate. Bruce
Thank you everyone for your input. @longnine009 I’ll reach out to the seller and ask. Hopefully their English is better than my Dutch.
Update to this post: it appears I was incorrect that this coin was already purchased. I have purchased it and will see it in a couple of weeks.
It looks ok to me when compared to this coin I own from Lippe. I know not the same country. Seems official counterstamps weren't unheard in Europe. But, I can't say I've seen many of them either! I don't know if that puts your mind at ease any.
My biggest concern is that the opposite side of the stamp isn’t discolored. Normally, when a coin is counterstamped, the reverse is lighter than the rest of the coin. That was my biggest concern. My other counterstamped coin for reference on what I mean.
The reverse side isn't always lighter especially on coins stamped years ago. They can tone over or pick up environmental contaminants. I wouldn't be concerned about that. Bruce
