1863 Copper Token

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Collecting Nut, Oct 11, 2022.

  1. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Not sure which is the obverse because the same date is on both sides. So to me the obverse is the one with the shield. The shield contains 13 Stars and Stripes for the colonies. UNION FOR EVER is from 9 to 3 o’clock with 2 additional stars located at 4 and 8 o’clock. Date is centered at 6 o’clock.

    The reverse depicts the iron clad ship, the Merrimack. Again, there are 13 stars over the ship. The date is at 6 o’clock and centered. I like the waves hitting the side of the ship. A definite and beautiful token from the Civil War.
    9137203D-CCA4-4F5D-8BC3-48E1B66DB653.jpeg EC6BA734-0D66-4C15-BBB4-FFDF5846B838.jpeg
     
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  3. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Not to quibble, but the Union ironclad was the Monitor as shown on the token. It fought the confederate ship Virginia which was the Union wooden steam frigate Merrimac until the CSA took it and converted it to an ironclad.

    Cool token.
     
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  4. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Isn't that the Monitor?
     
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  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Yes, it’s The Monitor. This is a fairly common variety, but the demand is high. I have been out of market for years, so I can’t give you quotes. I’m so out of it that I was surprised at the $50+ asking prices for common Civil War tokens at Summer FUN.

    The best known Merrimack token is made from iron that was recovered from the wreckage of the ship. It was made circa 1905, and in the book, but no longer considered to be a Civil War token. Nice ones without rust bring strong prices.
     
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  6. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    You’re not quibbling, you’re correcting me and I need it. I know better but this fairly new medication I’m on is killing me. It helped at first but it’s gotten bad and bad has gotten worse. I see my doctor in two weeks and hopefully things will change. Thank you for correcting me.
     
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  7. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Sure is Charley! It sure is.
     
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  8. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Here ya go... 20221011_190539.jpg 20221011_190515.jpg

    MO 7 is the obv.. Of your CWT and the rev. Is an MO 10 but looks like the MO9 obv.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2022
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  9. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    20221011_190939.jpg 20221011_194358.jpg EC6BA734-0D66-4C15-BBB4-FFDF5846B838.jpeg.jpg CDH
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2022
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  10. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

  11. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    This is the best references on these medals 1665530319391_20221011_191718.jpg
     
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  12. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I have thought often that the pieces were sort of weird, since there was no victory.

    Then one day at Convention many years ago, a Token Specialist said the pieces were prepared before the event, and that there was a belief in the Confederate States that the Virginia would change the war, and the Northern States believed the Monitor would destroy the belief.

    It did change the war. It did change Ship design and construction from then on...even now... and saved a lot of trees.
     
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  13. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Depends who you talked to :) $(KGrHqFHJCcE-ffTjhSNBPss+uuRmQ--60_12   61012 o-crop.jpg $(KGrHqJ,!joE-msMp+hrBPss+vq(i!--60_12 61012 r-crop.jpg
     
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  14. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Love how worn that reverse die is. It’s had a ton of hard use
     
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  15. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Iv
    I think both dies were over used. Lol
     
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  16. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The battle between the Monitor and the Merrimack or CSS Virginia was a draw, but the result was a win for the Union.

    When the North got wind of the existence of the Virginia there was a panic. Would the Confederacy sail the monster up the Potomac River, shell Washington DC and for the Union Government out of its capital? Did the Union Government have anything that could defeat the monster?

    The first day the Virginia engaged the Union fleet of wooden ships confirmed the worse fears. The Union wooden navy was instantly rendered obsolete.

    The next day the Monitor appeared on the scene, and neutralized the Virginia. The Monitor didn't sink or defeat the Virginia, but it held it to a draw. The truth was the Virginia was underpowered, top heavy and not very seaworthy. It needed calm seas to survive, and its ability to get to a Washington DC was highly doubtful. The truth was the Monitor could keep it bottled up where it was. Ultimately the Confederacy blew up the Virginia to keep it from falling into Union hands.

    As for the token in the OP, the obverse (Monitor side) is Fuld 240. The reverse, the shield side, is Fuld 341. It is an R-1 token. It also a very late die state. Both dies were badly rusted when the token was stuck, which resulted in the die sinker's initials, C.D.H., almost disappearing. Fuld 240 was also paired with Fuld 337 which is the piece that is in my collection. Since I only collect the obverse designs for the Monitor CWTs, that's the one I have.

    Although my token is a close to full red Unc., the dies were rusty when it was struck, which is why the fields are not smooth.

    240 337 Mon O.jpg 240 337 Mon R.jpg
     
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  17. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

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