Is a counterfeit still a counterfeit if I make it myself?

As far as I know, Morgan dollars are still legal tender of the United States. Read the description:https://www.etsy.com/listing/124732...Sm42gDBX4092NUmrupLeAysWBcWgbbrwaApqcEALw_wcB

 

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Guess I can't report it unless I sign up for Etsy. Not tonight, thanks.

 

@Collecting Nut here's a cheap 93 s they may even take your 93 in trade? LoL

 

At least he is honest:

"This is a very high quality silver/copper Morgan new-mint that I made myself."

 

Wow, of the 8 similar items displayed at the top of the page no less than 5 are obvious counterfeits. Etsy is a mine field for under educated collectors.....

 

I’ll pass, thank you for thinking of me.

 

HONEST .... ROFLMAO. True I'm a counterfeiter but my hand to the man....I am as honest as the day is long! Just ask me.... Do you need a 16 D I got some purdy ones....

 

Just remember that it's illegal to own a counterfeit that is not marked "COPY."

Of course the next question is, how much honor can you expect from a counterfeiter?

 

Trust me, so is Listia, which I am on. I've called out on quite a few people in the comments section there. But they have the option of hiding your comments. I have not pursued any actual reports. I just hope a few people are swayed by my comments before they get hidden.

 

From my own searching, and from MANY LONG TEDIOUS threads here about a certain surplus-Denver-coin-press owner/operator, it's my understanding that owning a counterfeit is not illegal. Selling or passing it with fraudulent INTENT is what's illegal.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/485

Lots of blog posts and the like from legal firms seem to support this position. (I do recognize that that advice is worth exactly what I've paid for it.)

If there are legal citations (available and understandable to laymen) that say otherwise, I haven't found them yet.

 

Thats just not true

 

Now read sec 489 no fraudulent intent needed

Whoever, within the United States, makes or brings therein from any foreign country, or possesses with intent to sell, give away, or in any other manner uses the same, except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States or of any foreign country issued as money, either under the authority of the United States or under the authority of any foreign government shall be fined under this title.

Although this section doesn't make it illegal to possess it as long as you never intend to let it leave your possession. But then there is Sec 492 which requires you to forfeit them to the United States, but their seems to only be a penalty if you fail to surrender them when requested to do so.

Sec 492
All counterfeits of any coins or obligations or other securities of the United States or of any foreign government, or any articles, devices, and other things made, possessed, or used in violation of this chapter or of sections 331–333, 335, 336, 642 or 1720, of this title, or any material or apparatus used or fitted or intended to be used, in the making of such counterfeits, articles, devices or things, found in the possession of any person without authority from the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer, shall be forfeited to the United States.

Whoever, having the custody or control of any such counterfeits, material, apparatus, articles, devices, or other things, fails or refuses to surrender possession thereof upon request by any authorized agent of the Treasury Department, or other proper officer, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

 

HPA is the wild wild West of verbiage. Everybody is Wyatt Earp, and nobody is a huckleberry, and Doc still is a lovable mischievous varmint, and Ike freely comes into town now and then. But, nobody knows nothing about what he did or didn't do.

(varmint...var-mint) Clever, no? I am giddy with my self proclaimed masterly wit. No clapping. please. I can't hear it in cyberspace.

 

I believe it was supposed to be huckle bearer. Val Kilmer botched the line.

 

Nobody wants to steal the Thunder of Mr. Finn.

But, no. Read "Tombstone", by Burns, 1928. Common insult, at that time in history, basically gobbledygobbledness for "I am going to kick your azz", etc.
I know stuff..

 

That’s applicable to pre-1973 counterfeits. All post-1973 counterfeits are illegal to sell (The HPA verbiage does not give an intent limitation) but are legal to own.

 

And then there are the many interpretations of the definition of counterfeit itself...

One I continue to run across is "made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud".

 

Counterfeiting is illegal and there are lots of laws about counterfeiting covering all areas. Making the coins, selling, trading owing or using them all have laws. Why do we not hear about arrests? Because it’s not really enforced.

 

And apparently "exact" has no exact definition.

 

His 1804: