AU-58 vs. UNC Morgans

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Klunky, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. Klunky

    Klunky Member

    I saw some raw Morgans graded MS-63 at a dealer the other day. Some looked right, but a few of the dollars had eagles with what looked like wear on the breast feathers...and Liberty's hair looked like it had wear on the high points. Dealer said they were just coins with weak strikes.

    I got home and started reading my ANA grading guidelines book, but it didn't help much. It said not to confuse weak strike areas with wear, but it didn't say how to. So I guess that's my question. How can you tell the difference between wear and poor strikes? An explanation would be great, but pictures might be even more helpful. Thanks in advance.
     
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  3. silvrluvr

    silvrluvr Senior Member

    I would think any wear would show luster breaks.
     
  4. RedTiger

    RedTiger Member

    For raw coins also look at the rim. The rim will often be one of the first places to show visible wear.
     
  5. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    It can be very hard to tell the difference, I would say the best way to tell AU-MS is experience, look at a lot, a lot of coins (You can go on heritage and get tons of pics).

    Certain things to take into account are; (besides the hair above the ear, and the Eagle's breast) the wing tips can show wear very early so that's always a good place to check. Another thing people often confuse for wear is frost breaks, so that's another thing to look out for.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This is a very complicated issue and it has many things that impact or affect the determination of the grade.

    Learning to distinguish wear from a weak strike on Morgans is a tough thing to do. Breaks in the luster on the hair above the ear and eagle's brast are not a good indicator because there will be no luster on these weakly struck areas, or if they have wear.

    However, there is a way to tell wear from a weak strike - color. And no, not color from toning (but toning can confuse the issue) but in the metal itself. The weakly struck areas will be a darker shade of grey than the surrounding metal that has luster. And wear also shows a darker shade of grey. But the grey from wear is a slightly darker shade than the grey from a weak strike. So you have to learn how to distinguish one color from the other and recognize which is which.

    Then there is the texture of the metal. The hair above the ear is the high point. So as the coin is struck the metal is flowing, trying to fill this recess in the die. But if the pressure is not great enough to cause the metal to fill the recess completely then the top of that metal will be somewhat course and rough instead of smooth like the rest of the coin. It will somewhat resemble the rough texture of the fields of an early Buffalo nickel. So with a weakly struck coin you have metal that is a darker grey and that has a rough texture.

    Now the metal that has wear on the other hand will be smooth. And unlike most people think, wear does not remove metal from the coin, rather it smashes and flattens out the metal. And since this is a progressive process the metal is left smooth, or smoother, in areas of wear. So on worn areas you will find the darkest shade of grey and a smooth metal texture.

    Now both of these diffrences are subtle and it takes experience to recognize them. But with practice it can be learned. And the hair above the ear is far and away the easiest place to see the differences. The eagle's breast for example is much harder because of the fine detail and rough surface of the design. The wing tips however, if they have a lack of luster are almost always an indicator of wear. So if the wing tips are a darker grey than the rest of the wing it is almost a certainty that the coin has wear.

    These diagnostics work on other coins as well, but of course you have to look for them on the high points of the coin. And it needs to be understood that a weak strike is not always indicated by a lack of luster. For example, a weak strike does not always occur at the highest points. It can occur at mid-range high points as well like the legends or lower portions of the design elements. And when it does these areas will have luster, but the detail will not be complete and fully formed. And, the luster in these weakly struck areas will not be as full, as intense, as it is in the fully struck areas.

    Now, with all of this said, and assuming that you can correctly recognize the differences, you also have to be take into account that coins can very similar diagnostics and yet still be properly graded as MS. This is because the grading standards, both the ANA's and the TPG's, make allowances for what is called cabinet friction or roll friction. Friction (rub marks or what would otherwise be defined as light wear) from these causes is acceptable and is not defined as wear.

    Of course it is completely impossible to tell if the luster breaks (rub) was caused by cabinet/roll friction or by wear from circulation. So it is purely an arbitrary determination made by the grader when other evidence of wear is not present on the coin.

    This idea, or practice, in grading does not sit well with everybody. But it is the way it is in the hobby. Some, like myself, prefer to look at it from the perspective that wear is wear regardless of the cause. And that any coin that shows wear cannot be graded as MS. So you have to make the determination to either accept it or reject it on your own.
     
  7. Klunky

    Klunky Member

    Thanks for all the info.

    Are there any years that are more common with weak strikes? Or does it have more to do with which mint the coins came from?
     
  8. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    The strike quality can vary from year to year, and mint to mint. This site can give you a good idea on the strike quality for each date/mm.
    Grading Coins - CoinGrading.com; Strike
     
  9. Dimefreak

    Dimefreak Senior Member

    Ive always been taught that the New Orleans is most commonly struck weak
     
  10. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

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