How to detect harsh cleaning?

Hey all, I got an 1833 capped bust half for my birthday earlier and while I don't intend to look a gift horse in the mouth, I'm curious if there's a way to determine if the coin has been harshly cleaned?

I took a few pics with my USB microscope:


Zooming as much as possible with this microscope, I see there are tiny criss crossed scratches in the band around the liberty:





but I don't see anything but radial lines around the date:


or the bottom left star:


My lighting setup sucks (microscope's light) but I'm not sure if that's proper luster... I tried a couple with my cell phone in daylight to see if I can capture it better.



Sorry for the near dozen pictures.

I guess basically my question is: Are there things I can look for on this (or any) coin that tip off whether it's been harshly cleaned?

I'm curious what a slabbing might return or whether I should just save the money and keep it in an airtight instead. Thanks for any thoughts.

 

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The bright spot under "E Pluribus Unum" is not a good sign. An abrasive was used to remove the toning. Also there is a "halo" around the top stars on the obverse.

It's not what I would call "harsh," but it's bad enough for you not to get a straight grade.

 

When I look at the top of the coin on both sides it looks like it was held, and the top was protected from whatever happened to it! I also think there is a difference in the stars on the left side of the obverse. The top 3 look less worn the middle more worn and the bottom three very worn. Makes me wonder if the coin was cleaned and polished, but the entire coin wasn't polished! IDK! Just what I think I see!!!

 

I'll second this. Cleaned yes, but I'm not seeing signs of harsh treatment.

 

It's cleaned but I would take it.

 

Thanks guys!

So I would look for halos/discoloration around the details as the best sign of a cleaning?

Here are the top left three starts under medium magnification:

And the field under E PLURIBUS:


I remember reading that under extreme magnification tell-tale scratches can be seen for certain types of cleaning. Could that be what this discoloration is showing up as under my cheap usb microscope?

 

Your question is one akin to many I frequently have. In the process of educating myself and learning about what constitutes harsh cleaning or other details issues I have (and will continue to) submitted dozens of coins to ICG on the special to see what the professionals assessment is of these interesting dilemmas we collectors face. I must say I have learned a lot. That said, you seem on top of this stuff- well done.

 

Thanks, MIGuy, that's a pretty good idea. Instead of aiming for a TPG encapsulation to preserve value, I should think of it as an assessment fee for learning. Seems reasonable if I can catch a time when a good deal comes up. Too bad you can't order an additional 'reasons' summary to come along with a details finding...

 

A harshly cleaned coin is unmistakable. It will scream at you harshly cleaned. The ones you have to watch out for are the gently improperly cleaned coins. Those can get by collectors, but the TPG's always catch it.

Here is what a harshly cleaned coin will look like.



Here's another 1889-O Morgan struck from the exact same extremely deteriorated dies, but has not been cleaned. You'll notice the absence of the heavy parallel hairlines.

 

ha, wow. There's apparently nothing a little sandpaper won't fix, eh? Ok, I see what you mean...

 

Interesting! I've always thought a details designation meant that the coin had been altered to make it appear better than it should be under normal wear and tear. PMD if it's bad enough could also trigger a details?

 

Looks to be definitely cleaned but I would not call that a harsh cleaning. Nice gift though.

 

Absolutely! Cleaning, altered surfaces, scratch, damage (from a large hit or a bent coin), environmental damage (corrosion), graffiti, the list goes on and on. Nearly anything that changes the surface in a negative manner that did not come from the mint or from normal circulation can be cause for a details grade.

 

I'll pile on late.

1. Your coin is improperly cleaned. Not harshly but enough so that it is very obvious.

2. The "halo effect" you mention where the field adjacent to a coin's relief is a different color and texture is usually a definite sign of improper cleaning.

3. It is impossible to to tell if the dent on the coins edge is PMD or a place on the collar where the incuse part of the edge lettering overlapped the rim. You should be able to look at the edge to see if that is the case.

And... Improperly cleaned coins can be found that are straight graded by the TPGS. Even the ANA Grading standards allow a coin to be called low MS with many hairlines. Unfortunately, if you send a straight graded TPGS "A" slightly cleaned coin to TPGS "B" they will not cross it because it is CLEANED yet that service will have straight graded cleaned coins that are far worse!!

 

It's definitely damaged on the rim. Looks like it took a pretty good hit and then wore down over the years:


From the obverse:

And from the reverse:


Almost makes me wonder if someone grabbed and held it with a pair of tin snips at some point.

 

I guess that's to be expected on something as subjective as this. I'm more interested in what sorts of objective determinations that I can use to catch any improper/harsh cleanings, honestly. Thanks for the heads up, though.

 

As an aside, you don't need to make any apologies for your "cheap USB microscope". These photos are excellent.

 

Ditto. I wish everyone did their photos as well, including me.