Hi all , I was wondering if there is anyone on here who could help me out on where I may find any info or a picture of an 1861 IHC Die trial -Judd 274 ? I have looked all over the place even bought the Judd books but to no avail . Thank you for any help you can provide me !
I have the following book: United States Patterns and Related Issues Andrew W. Pollock III 1994 Ed. It states the following: 323 Copper. Plain Edge. Rarity-8. Judd-274 (not listed Davis or Adams-Woodin) (1) Kagin's, July1979, Metropolitan Washington, Lot 831*, AU Kagin's, January 1981, Lot 931*, AU (A) Parson's, Lot 401; Kagin's, August 1977, ANA, Lot 2165*, (same as 1?) Auction price realized 1981: $1250 (AU) The "323" is the Pollock number. The * indicates the coin was imaged in that particular catalogue. I hope this helps.
Thank you Guys, I really appreciate the help ! I believe I might just have such a coin as it appears to have the right color . I will need to get it examined- I'm guessing at a jeweler for elemental analysis ? I do not have it in hand right now as it's in the bank deposit box at this time but will post pics soon enough !
@coyndevil36 Here ya go. Pic is from Kagin's auction of 1979 (lot is 881, not 831). Resolution wasn't great in those days. We're spoiled with digital pics these days. Cal
Woww , that's fantastic ! thank you Calcol for finding it , not the greatest to compare with as for color but at least its something . I really believe I might have found one. the one I have appears to have an underlaying reddish hue and looks exactly like a toned copper cent . there's just something about it that stands out from the rest . I need to attach a video or pics of it .... stay tuned folks !
You wanna know if you have a pattern or regular issue? Send the coin to ANACS. Should cost around $40-$50 for a definite answer.
That was another question for you guys , will any of the services even do an "elemental analysis" on it ? I'm really not trying to knock PCGS but I question if they even go out of the way to check things like that and I don't want to keep resubmitting coins as it gets very costly in the end !
Yes, NGC or PCGS will do an elemental analysis ... but it will cost a fair bit. Call them. My experience with PCGS is that they send coins out to a private lab for elemental analysis. The lab uses scanning electron microscopy. It's still based on an analysis of emitted x-rays, but instead of a high energy x-rays displacing orbital electrons (the case for handheld x-ray fluorescence analyzers), it uses high energy electrons. The advantage is that multiple spots on a coin's side can be analyzed. Some coin dealers have a handheld analyzer. If you can get one to do an analysis and the alloy turns out to be bronze, there's little sense in going further. Before springing for elemental analysis by a TPG, send the coin for grading. You don't want to pay extra for analyzing a fake. If the grading company agrees with your Judd number (and they might), there's probably not much value in elemental analysis unless you're really curious. Cal
Contact Richard Snow. He's the Indian Cent King. He's written great book on Flying Eagle and Indian Cents.
The attached info is right from Richard Snows book. No Pictures but based on Richard comment I'm not surprised.
You might try becoming a member then submitting the coin photos to CONECA: https://board.conecaonline.org/ They'll attribute it for free in the forum you choose and let you know what you have. They are very knowledgeable and quick about responding.
Judd-274 was struck from a set of regular dies. Difference is it's copper rather that bronze. In addition, there do not appear to be any high res photos of J-274 available. So just looking at the coin will probably not allow a determination of whether it is the pattern or regular coin. The Judd book, 10th ed., states, "elemental analysis is required". That said, an expert might be able to determine whether the coin is fake even if they can't determine whether it's the pattern or not. In addition, there have been cases in the past where coins were sent to PCGS, the form stated it was a particular pattern, and PCGS took the submitter's word for it even though an elemental analysis should have been performed. I personally bought such a coin, and after I had an elemental analysis performed, PCGS had to change the Judd number on the label. BTW, PCGS does not guarantee Judd numbers! Cal
Very Interesting, I would think they would do the right thing given they are a big outfit and all . I will have to call them and see what they say.
Yes, I will look into joining CONECA at this point as I do have other coins I need to have looked at .
Thank you again all for your input. I will definitely have to do something with this coin at some point as I really think this is a true found specimen from the looks of it.