DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS CURRENT EBAY/PAYPAL RELATIONSHIP?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by imrich, Apr 24, 2022.

  1. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I posted the following in a thread discussing conjecture of possible future eBay evolution, after purchasing an expensive CACed coin on 4/10/22, receiving nothing:

    "I personally know that something is happening as they have a large sum of my funds for a CACed Gold coin purchase.,

    I purchased the coin late on Sunday, based on the published eBay statement that buyers have 4 days to pay.

    I received a phone notice early Monday morning that my bank account was overdrawn, and a charge/funds were due before account is promptly closed.

    The overdraft was generated by eBays' charge of less than 12 hours against my account.

    Within 2 hours, I virtually immediately cashed series EE bonds and covered all charges.

    EBay would not allow communications, so I wrote a complaint to Paypal, where eBay opened an action report.

    EBay is not communicating when a complaint is submitted, and don't allow human interaction for a buyer.

    The seller wrote that when he contacted EBay about not being able to access his funds, he was told to not send the purchased/paid product.

    The Seller informed me on 3 occasions that the product wouldn't be sent.

    I was told to resolve the matter with eBay!

    The Seller stated that upon recovering some eBay funds, if I digitally signed a release, he would send a partial refund.

    I contacted my funds transfer agent Paypal by phone, registered a complaint, and was assured they could resolve the matter within ~3 weeks.

    The seller reported in writing that he can't access his funds, being told multiple times (hearsay) that he shouldn't/won't send the purchased item.

    The seller sent a tracking number without sending anything.

    It's been a week without USPS receiving anything.

    A vague report appears to state the seller has received funds.

    No feedback from eBay, Paypal, or Seller!

    Something new is happening!"

    After waiting until several days beyond eBays stated maximum delivery date without receiving communication/coin/refund, I contacted Paypal, presenting my posted arguments for a resolution of my claim/case, which it appeared hadn't yet been examined.

    After a lengthy "discussion" it was agreed that I had presented evidence of possible fraud.

    It was agreed that the Seller stated Paypal hadn't authority to interfere in an eBay sale where the purchased coin or full refund wouldn't be delivered, and he would not respond to Paypal.

    It was agreed I was due something, and I may get a refund within a couple real time months (their business-time day possible "float").

    This seemingly is Insanity, where eBay/Paypal can confiscate your funds virtually overnight with what appears to be an eBay (not seller) sale, hold your funds virtually indefinitely, open case, not respond, and force a possible recovery through Paypal.

    Does anyone here know the FACTUAL current relationship between these 2 firms and Seller/Buyer?

    I'm interested in determining the FACTS, not hypothesis, which I've already determined.

    Please post or PM.
     
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  3. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Well, I wouldn't trust either for anything of a large purchase without dotting every 'i' and crossing every 't' possible, to include having all funds deposited in advance of making payment...not within "4 days to pay" or even 12-plus hours, whatever...plus corresponding with seller to be sure all is in place. That said, for me it's been more with sellers than eBay or PPal when there's been an issue, but never done anything of more than a few hundred dols. Not being critical...just that eBay is the absolute worst of the worst when it comes to communication and customer service, policies and explanations, access to human interaction (none), et al, and PP isn't much if any better. They seem utterly common senseless in not knowing how the right hands of their all-too-big-for-their-britches operations effect the left hands...and visa-versa. Don't know their current relationship other than maybe somehow "in cahoots." Good luck.
     
    imrich likes this.
  4. Casman

    Casman Well-Known Member

    Whaaat? Are you claiming you won a coin, and Ebay processed your payment without your knowledge?
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  5. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Legally, believed in violation of their published terms of billing, YES!

    It's believed Government representative action can't be obtained without further due process documentation of perceived/actual legal damages, as motivating possible fraudulent actions, and knowingly with-holding buyers funds.

    JMHO
     
  6. Casman

    Casman Well-Known Member

    Arbitration is the remedy
     
    imrich likes this.
  7. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    In addition to pursuing your remedies through PayPal and eBay, I'd file a complaint with your state Attorney General and / or Department of Consumer Protection and maybe google to see if there's a class action or some attorney who is handling this type of case on a contingency fee basis.
     
    imrich likes this.
  8. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks for your input!

    I know how to handle the case, but it needs attention beyond State, at Federal level through legislators.

    Both of the offices you mentioned can only moderate pertaining to potential violations of state statutes/laws.

    I've often dealt with State A.G./C.C. personnel.

    They generally can't initiate any legal action.

    JMHExperience
     
  9. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Arbitration isn't believed to be the solution.

    Mediation and possible Federal legislation may be a remedy?

    These companies have far too much power in the courts, and are believed to outlast their accusers.

    I speak as one who got intimately involved in past class action Paypal debacle:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...reezing-customer-accounts-without-explanation

    Here is a current class action against Paypal that could continue virtually indefinitely without plaintiffs realizing recompense, as happened in the past:
    https://www.paliareroland.com/practice-areas/details/class-actions/paypal

    I received a positive mediation PM report from a similar "victim".

    I just need logical legislator support, at a time when it appears eBay may be receptive to change, based on Paypals' current court decision!

    JMHExperience
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  10. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I do not read any compelling information that would cause me to change my original opinion, that this issue may not have occurred, if there had been sufficient funds to cover the transaction at the time of the purchase.

    The 4 days to pay is not an escape clause. Payment was attempted by the purchaser. The overdraft was because a payment was attempted, and since there were not sufficient funds, this triggered a non-sufficient funds response. The 4 day "Rule", does not translate as allowing a payment to be attempted without sufficient funds and a "my mistake, I will immediately deposit enough to cover the purchase" response. Electronic payment is an electronic payment. If the payment is late the payment is late.

    As to the other information, and whether fraud occurred after the fact or not, does not negate the fact that sufficient funds were not available at the time of purchase, and had there been sufficient funds, the present situation may not have become a quagmire.

    Is there intentional fraud after the fact? I don't know that, and neither does anybody else. I do not conclude it is logical to automatically assume there is an Ebay-Paypal evil intent. I consider their actions, as stated in this Thread, to be prudent and correct actions as fiduciaries of the financial transaction.

    To me, the lesson is: make certain sufficient funds are in the account that will be utilized to pay for the purchase, before the purchase.
     
    imrich likes this.
  11. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    You are correct, as a victim of multiple identity theft actions, that it doesn't matter how the funds are ?/borrowed.

    I really don't understand the eBay commitment system, as it appears dependent upon the listing type that you can make a purchase commitment in various ways, which I have on numerous occasions.

    That listing apparently didn't allow the 4 day commitment option, or any period when placed after the firms' business hours on a Sunday evening.

    Regardless, as shown by current litigation, the firms legally can't accept payment, approve denial of total refund, when virtually immediately (within several hours of commitment to purchase) notified.

    There still isn't a meeting of the minds, or Quid Pro Quo, as they have my funds with only a suggestion of future payment, as I provided when I placed an incompleted purchase order.

    Thank you for your correct advice!
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  12. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    CAVEAT EMPTOR is the new warning for internet commerce!!

    I purchased a Caced coin listed on eBay, paid, and received nothing.

    Correspondence was futile, no positive response, as was told ebay would allow not sending 4 digit value coin.

    Opened case with eBay, no response.

    Seller sent tracking number without ever delivering product, which allowed release of funds to seller.

    Nothing was ever delivered to U.S.P.S.!

    Contacted Paypal, which allowed eBay to automatically close their "non-delivery" case.

    Paypal has to wait for a "Seller Response", never came so I demanded a refund after their stated "time-out" period.

    Refund was eventually received.

    No Seller personal contact info is allowed by either eBay or Paypal currently.

    Significant research resulted in a direct Seller e-mail address.

    I've been defrauded of a 5 figure sum over the years on eBay, and knew their "buyer protection" statement to be currently unrealistic after trying to resolve very apparent fraud, after receipt of NAD expensive equipment, blamed on typing errors.

    There's no contact resource with their current 30 day real-time, or Paypal contact auto-close current policy.

    I wanted to establish "benefit of doubt" or "intentional fraud" condition.

    I contacted the Seller with a proposal to send through U.S.P.S. a certified delivery of payment for the coin purchased through eBay.

    Time has elapsed after the Seller received payment, and multiple unanswered requests for delivery/response were sent.

    LOCAL/LOCALE POLICE/ETC., POSTAL AUTHORITIES ET AL, HAVE RECEIVED EVIDENCE OF "INTENTIONAL FRAUD".

    THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS HAVE STATED THAT WITH ~6 MILLION REPORTS OF FRAUD IN 2021, THEY HAVEN'T STAFF TO INVESTIGATE (MUCH LESS FUTILE INTEREST).

    THE SELLER ORIGINALLY LAUGHED WHEN I MENTIONED FRAUD INVESTIGATION/PROSECUTION.

    IT NOW APPEARS THAT THE CRIMINAL COURTS ARE SO OVERLOADED THAT REALIZING CRIMINAL JUSTICE MAY NOT BE A LIFETIME EXPERIENCE.

    BEST PROBABLE CURRENT ACTION IS IN A CIVIL BROADCASTED COURT AS JUDGE JUDY, MATHIS, OR THE PEOPLE'S COURT.

    CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  13. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Don't expect the protection to get any better,
    It's not like the good ole days that you bought that gold round via a hand shake.
    No internet required. NO, false identity's to hide behind.
     
  14. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    I read your OP and while the information may be there; I am not able to establish who has custody of the money. (The - seller, Ebay, Paypal or you?).
     
    Heavymetal likes this.
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    If I'm understanding this correctly, you opened a case with eBay, then opened a case with PayPal. When you opened the PayPal case, eBay automatically closed theirs (as they explicitly state in their User Agreement).

    There's a similar clause in the PayPal agreement, I think, where if you challenge a PayPal charge with your credit-card company it automatically cancels any PayPal case that's open.
     
  16. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I will put my toe in the water.

    The OP is presenting a scenario that may....may....be actionable, due to ETF Funds manipulated by the Fiduciary responsible, while a financial instrument is in the possession of the Fiduciary, and that when more than one Fiduciary 'agree' to 'relent' responsibility upon receipt of a valid enquiry, it may be a Title 18 Fraud/Conspiracy violation.

    Given the facts presented by the OP, a quicker path to resolution, and referral under Title 18, would first be a Class Action filing.

    I think this is what the OP is conveying. The OP is also questioning the SEC lack of coordination with the AG of known complaints, which is a violation of the SEC Rules.

    I am sure the OP has also considered 418 and 432. Frankly, he could be right.

    Truth in editing: changed 'p' to'P'.
     
  17. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Based on ebays actions, since ebay seemingly immediately reports themself as the seller, commanding a payment from your financial institution, even before a business day, they retain the funds as a "float".

    Accordingly to ebay TOS, and their actions, they can immediately open a case showing the total funds amount as "Earned Income".

    The aforementioned action significantly shows increased sales that effectively alters their financial statement.

    It appears that after thirty days the case is automatically closed with ebay still retaining control of the payment funds.

    If a Seller shows a tentative tracking number, it's reported the funds are free to the real seller for their sales efforts.

    Ebay sellers have access to company employees, where generally buyers have no access without legal process.

    Paypal has an investigative process requirement prior to possible legal process formality.

    Buyers are perceived generally unable to receive due process without Paypal or private legal action.

    JMHO
     
  18. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    So you cashed in some Series E Bonds and deposited the proceeds into your personal Bank Account. Then transferred some or all of the bond proceeds from that account to your paypal account. Then Paypal forwarded the required funds to Ebay on your behalf where it now sits in escrow?

    Sort of a clunky transaction. Have you checked to see if the money has made it over all these hurdles?
     
  19. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    You would need to know the intimacies of finance to understand that control of financial accounts/documents are going through some drastic changes.

    The believed ultimate goal is that government will have absolute control of currencies in this country.

    Also as an MBA forming Sub-chapter S organizations since age of 16 for individuals wanting to start their own businesses, I've been intimately involved with finances,

    I've kept abreast of documents as the Series EE bonds which were initially virtually undocumented "bearer bonds".

    They were cashed at Federal banks, recently being made worth less, after banks were stripped of the conversion software.

    The documents were requested to be sent unsigned to an organization called "Treasury Direct", who will cash and manage your now only digital funds.

    Having access to a very large sum of these documents, I located a small federally insured (believed unlike "Treasury Direct") institution that still had conversion software, and wanted my business.

    I converted a portion of the funds, and placed in multiple accounts which can transfer to a large primary usage Federal Bank, Ebay, Paypal,,,,.

    Paypal is believed to be the "creme de la creme" of funds confiscators.

    They acquire the funds of clients, and when a "class action" is generated with stringent requirements for inclusion, and accepted by Federal Regulators, they offer a large portion of funds to Plaintiffs' attorneys.

    Action Closed for virtually all Plaintiffs, as I've shown in a recent European "action".

    Ebay has now reformed, believed eliminating funds control by Paypal in some seemingly convoluted arrangement.

    All funds I've paid to ebay/paypal were only exactly due from an ebay sales contract for a specific ebay advertised item, paid from an external limited funding account.

    The accounts are believed to meet the current new $600 "tax-evasion/money-laundering" filing requirements.

    I've been appreciably interrogated multiple times over the years as to the source of my bank deposits, and the Series EE deposits meet the acceptable IRS standards.

    Yes, I'd like easier options for funds transfer if you have a current PROVEN alternative.

    I trust my treatise-like explanation meets your answer requirement.

    It's believed we haven't seen the "best yet to come".

    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  20. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    wn-7734-40. Just throw me a rope so I can climb out of this tiger pit.
     
    imrich likes this.
  21. Dafydd

    Dafydd Supporter! Supporter

    To add to the Ebay / Paypal debate. many weeks ago I sold a coin for $200 and the buyer paid by Paypal and I shipped the coin and he left great feedback.
    I then tried to transfer the money to my bank account and received a notification that Ebay wanted to verify my banking details before releasing funds.
    I have been a member since 1998 and buy on Ebay regularly, in fact every month and there has never been a problem in TAKING my money.
    I registered my Ebay account with my full name but my bank account features initials instead of the full forename so they say the bank doesn't match.
    I have had no response from emails and it is impossible to speak to anyone with sense so my view is that I will now forget selling anything on Ebay.
    Strange how they continue to recognise my bank account when they take money from it.
    Multiply this scenario by no doubt hundreds of thousands of people with funds frozen and they must be accruing massive interest on other peoples money.
     
    mlov43 and imrich like this.
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