Over time, several of my proof commemorative's have developed cloudiness. Being a post strike condition, how much would you take away from it's grade for this? Would it be a point or two from the numeric side or even a whole grade from the letter side? The pictures here are from the one with the worst of this condition. I could probably, by comparing degree, back into the correct grade on my others. I was never quite sure how much emphasis to place on it.
I don't have answer to your question . . . Just another question: What are the cause(s) of the cloudiness condition; not just on your coins but on any proof coins? TIA . . .
Cloudiness leads to subjectivity in response to this inquiry... if this is not due to environmental damage and is just the start of tone, some may be happy with it at this stage. Likely it will continue to 'cloud' over cover the entire coin surface if left alone until it is fully toned. A lot of Proof Ike dollars have this sort of cloudy appearance. Sometimes it's eye appealing and other times it's not. I agree with Danr's comment as well. I'm sure there will be a lot of perspectives on this question but don't assume that the coin will be worth less just because of this nor if you happen to personally dislike it or receive a bounty of similar replies against its appearance. I would also suggest that since the tone is somewhat symmetrical/ring-like around the edges that you might have better luck finding others who'd be willing to buy this rather than turn away from it, but like I said, the appeal of toned coins is very subjective. If you dislike it and found this to be worthy of restoration, proper coin conservation by professionals at NCS can remove the cloudiness, but at what expense? Probably prohibitive to the value of the piece in this case. I'm interested to hear what others will have to say about this topic.
The coin has haze. It is quite common on more modern Proofs, and as has been suggsted it mayor may not develop into toning. Whether it will or not, or if it will be pleasing or unpleasing is anybody's guess. But if you wish to remove it, the product called MS70 will do the job as long as it (the haze) has not gone too far. It's a crap shoot either way. And yes, it does detract from the grade. It's a matter of degree, but usually 1 or 2 points.
I have heard of this happening a lot on the modern regular and silver proof sets. As others have said, it is likely the start of toning perhaps exacerbated by storage environment. Some really like toning so you may want to hold on and see what happens. Some eventual color would be nice of course. TC
This is not uncommon, some coins do this others don't. People absolutely hate that kind of comment but that's it. If I were the OP and the cloudness bothered me esp. on coins like this modern stuff I'd sell it or trade it and get another. That would be your best answer but with no guarentee it will not happen again. Some do some don't. Humidity, care in removing from the mint set boxes it came in, shipping and storage are all possible factors for this happening. We really hate things out of our control until we accept them, then it's a breeze, some coins do, some won't. It's not a coin to conserve and really does not effect the grade as much as eye appeal. I'm not minimizing your coin other than it is what it is. Many times boxes of this stuff will come in and all of it will be this way, part of it, or none of it. I suspect the mint packaging often is the cause originally especially when it's got puple or blue type inserts.
Ben, do you mean you have noticed that the blue and purple original Mint presentation boxes have this tendency for coins to produce cloudiness (this particular type of tone) more often, if not exclusively, compared to coins originally put into the black, green, brown boxes? That would be a pretty interesting thing to figure out if it could be determined as a cause of inks/papers reacting under certain environmental conditions. I agree too that if the OP doesn't like it, get rid of it or get another in the condition they do prefer. Another thought/question: The Mint does apply some sort of treatment to the blanks to deter tone on modern proof coins, correct? (Is this a wash done at that stage of minting?) If so, is there any concern over whether modern production methods employed to deter tone is causing this to happen some percentage of the time?
I'm okay with holding on to it to see what happens. If it tones nicely, it's a keeper. I know the wash that coins go through, can give them spots which will be noticeable over a period of time. I wonder if it can be a catalyst for the toning process besides? As far as GDJMSP response, then if this coin is graded as MS68 it would become a MS66? Or if a totally different coin, say graded as AU55, it would become an AU53? Is what I am seeing a typical 2 point variance? I personally thought it might downgrade as much as 3 or 4 points in this condition. (MS68 to a MS65 or 64.) This will be good to know for I have two or three others. So far!
The purple/blue mint inserts just seem to tone more overall but not just the cloudiness. I've seen the cloudiness factor most often on Proof brown Ike's in boxes, I think they have a red insert. I do however (from what I've seen) think the more colorful mint inserts such as the blue, purple, red seem to tone (or haze) more often than other colors. Why there is just haze or color seems random to me so far. I think I could say haze happens more often on clad and lower content silver than on 90% though.
