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Agreed.

 

OK, I gotta ask......why do you need someone else's opinion on eye appeal?

 

Very true!!!!
we let them in and we have phase them out if possible

 

You have that right.

In my case, I wouldn't trust my own opinion as a Seller (I shudder at the thought). Try as I might to be objective, the coins I have always seem to be better. That's why they're MY COINS.

 

now it's time for my ignorance...

what the heck is QED? I have seen it millions of times in crossword puzzles, but you used it in your post.

What does it mean?

 

Mathematicians used to use it at the end of rigorous proofs. It's Latin for quod erat demonstrandum, "that which was to be demonstrated (has been demonstrated)".

 

GDJSMP has raised a very relevant point. He asked me what my use of TPG's and CAC says about me. It's really quite simple. I have collected over 50 years; I am retired and 66 years old. I feel it is incumbant on me to leave an estate that can be dealt with by people with absolutely no experience or knowledge of numismatics. In that vain a large envelope is in my safe with detailed instructions on the retention or disposal of the fruits of my lifelong hobby.
Further, I also feel it is imperative that my collections be intrinsically capable of returning the largest amount it is within my power to provide.
In that regard I know nearly every CT participant would agree that TPG'ed and CAC'ed coins do sell for more than raw coins. This has nothing to do with my feelings or opinions of this numismatic trend, it is a statement of emperically verifiable fact.
Is my position clear and understood?

 

clear, cogent and coherent.

I couldn't agree more. The TPGs are great for people who don't know coins and in this case, your heirs will need that.

 

There is also a good business reason for TPGs. Whether YOU need them as a collector or not, the market size increases with TPG. With the TPG, you not only get other highly skilled and low skilled graders (primary purchasers of raw coins), but you begin to get lower skilled investors as well. The bigger market usually means higher prices.

I consider collectors as those with only passing interest in a return on the investment as they collect. Investors, on the other hand, have little interest in the coins themselves other than as vehicles for potential profit.
Dealers fill the gap pretty well.

 

I agree 100% Marshall. My 2nd biggest problem with the TPGs from the start has been that they have brought investors into my hobby and in so doing have raised prices across the board. Great when you go to sell your collection (which my heirs will have to do cuz I ain't selling it!) but unfortunate when you are trying to acquire better coins for your personal collection.

For my heirs it's great because they will get a good buck for what I leave them. Truthfully, they are getting what they get for free anyways, so who cares if they sell it for $10 or $10,000. From my point of view, since I am on the buying end almost exclusively, it sucks.

 

I hear ya.

 

I am going to concur with RiverGuy on this. Offered the opportunity to purchase, within my price range, a coin in three TPG grades I will pick the coin that has the most appeal to me. My decision is based on my personal like of the coin, even if it is the lower grade. That is why I am a collector!
Considering that my heirs will deal with the disposition of the coin, I have a degree of surety that the TPG designated coin will have a readily available value that can be easily confirmed, even for someone who has no knowledge about coins. (That’s why you leave information on how to sell the coin for the most value.) That is why I am an investor!


And it all comes down to one point:
The value of the coin at the time of sale! Purchase price, length of time held in a collection, personal appreciation, all are subjectively meaningless. It is what the market will bear when the coin is sold!
This assumes the validity of the TPG and CCA are held to acceptable standards and not diluted to a worthless status.
(That's a topic for another conversation )

I purchase a coin for W = Market price in the year 2000

My heirs sell my coin for X = Market price in the year 20xx

My heirs sell my TPG Graded coin for Y =(X+ TPG market grade value)in the year 20xx


My heirs sell my TPG CCA Graded coin for Z=(Y+CCA market grade value)in the year 20xx

 

Whoa, hold on a second, pull on the reins. When I started this thread I freely admitted that the experience showed I had more to learn. How did we/you learn to grade? Read books, probably; look at thousands of coins, probably; look at pictures and grading sets, probably; talk to people who knew more(dealers and club members), probably. Now the kicker, did you put your money where your mouth is, probably not. When I enrolled in the ANA summerschool for the grading course I asked CT if anyone could share their own or friends experience with that formal training. I got zero responses. The course encompasses 34 hours of in-class instruction plus 4 evenings of informal conversation. I talked to Susan and her assistant Emily at the ANA yesterday(they administer the school) and there are still a couple of openings in the 2nd session. At $923 for tuition, room, and board I can't imagine a better numismatic expense for ALL of us. I still don't have a roommate, hope to see you there.

 

Two years ago I bought a 1916-D dime at a coin show. It was graded PCGS G04. After looking at it I knew it was better than G04. It also needed a new holder, so I sent it in for regrade (new holder also). I thought it would come back G06, came back VG08. The coin is a G06 but I'll take the VG08, but I know better, its in my photo album here.

CAC is kinda like a doctors second opinion......
I have no problems with CAC, I own a few and currently have 20 in route to CAC. For me its a good deal.........$10 a coin for the ones that sticker. When they are sold that $10 will be money well spent.

 

Say no to the sticker

 

I buy the coin, not the slab, but I'm glad it's encased in one. Slabs are convenient, they help protect the coin and, most important, they lessen the doubt of the next buyer. Plus, more and more high-end coins are being slabbed and soon not many raw versions will be available.

I predict that, within five years or so, we will have a new grading company that assigns incremental grades, perhaps on a five-point scale. Gold ("upgrade") stickers are few and far between and Green ("strong") is no longer specific enough. With the vast difference in value between a 65 and 66, for example, in many series, buyers are going to want to know if a coin is a 65.2, a 65.4 or a 65.8 and some company is going to take advantage of this uncertainty. It might be CAC itself.