From Frank's last auction -- a Julia Domna spared from tooling

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Apr 9, 2022.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    This arrived in today's mail and I'm very happy with it.

    Domna IVNO REGINA S C sestertius.jpg
    Julia Domna, AD 193 - 217.
    Roman orichalcum sestertius, 19.85 g, 28.5 mm, 6 h.
    Rome, AD 193-196.
    Obv: IVLIA DO-MNA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: IVNO REGINA S C, Juno standing left, holding patera in extended right hand and vertical scepter in left hand; at feet, peacock standing left, head right.
    Refs: RIC 840; BMCRE 487; Cohen 99; RCV 6626; Hill 151.
    Notes: Some light smoothing. Ex Roma E-Sale 85, lot 2012, 17 June 2021. From the Vitangelo collection.

    You'll note the coin has Julia Domna's earliest obverse legend, IVLIA DOMNA AVG. The coin is easily confused with a later issue (AD 196-209) bearing the IVLIA AVGVSTA legend, such as this example in the British Museum collection.

    Domna IVNO REGINA S C sestertius later obv legend BMC.png
    RIC 856; BMCRE 769.

    The reverse iconography is standard for IVNO and this reverse design was used on earlier issues of Manlia Scantilla, such as this example in my collection.

    Manlia Scantilla IVNO REGINA sestertius.jpg
    Manlia Scantilla, wife of Didius Julianus, Augusta, AD 193.
    Roman Æ Sestertius; 28.8 mm, 22.62 g, 12 h.
    Rome mint, AD 193.
    Obv: MANLIA•SCAN-TILLA•AVG, draped bust right.
    Rev: IVNO REGINA SC, Juno standing left, holding patera and scepter; to left, peacock at feet, standing left, head turned up.
    Refs: RIC 18a; BMCRE 32-36; Cohen 6; RCV 6083; Woodward, Didius, dies 6/-; Banti 2.

    The sestertii of Manlia Scantilla are rare, often selling for > $1000. Moreover, Julia Domna and Manlia Scantilla have the same hairstyle and their busts look very similar. This has led forgers to tool the IVNO REGINA S C sestertii of Julia Domna into "Manlia Scantilla" sestertii. @dougsmit has noted these particular Domna sestertii are "more scarce than [they] would be otherwise because it is easier to tool into a fake Manlia than most." Because of this, when buying a sestertius of Manlia Scantilla, it's important to make sure it's a die-match to the dies known to have been used in its production. Mine, for example, is an obverse die match to Woodward die 6. A die match to either the obverse or reverse is enough to rule out a tooled Domna.

    Did you win anything in Frank's latest auction? Let's see it! Post your new coins from the auction, Julia Domna Juno coins, Manlia Scantillas, or anything you feel is relevant!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Don't listen to Doug Smith. Everything he says is a lie.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox
    Who can we trust? It must be true, I read it on the internet, in a book, from the lips of a politician.........
    rl6260bb1923.jpg
     
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  4. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    A NEW WORLD RECORD OF VIEWERS IN 9 HOURS. CONGRATS RC !

    DDA4AED2-D991-4F8B-823D-02D28B9A2B63.jpeg
     
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  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Nope! You're one of the most trusted members of this community, @dougsmit! And that's a lovely example of the coin, with a gorgeous patina.

    I am truly astonished by this!

    [​IMG]

    Something I wrote must have attracted every bot on the net to scroll through it. But what?!
     
  6. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Lovely, @Roman Collector. Congrats!

    That is one of the many Julia Domna portraits where I’m unable to perceive whether it is a face of serenity or the victim of domestic abuse. I think my judgement is clouded from knowing too much about her family....
     
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  7. Bob L.

    Bob L. Well-Known Member

    From the latest FSR auction.
    Uncertain Early Arsacid Kings tetradrachm_Van't Haaff 10.1.1-1v copy.jpg
    Uncertain Early Arsacid Kings
    BI tetradrachm, late 1st century BC to early 2nd century AD
    Van't Haaff 10.1.1-1 variant (no pellet to left of anchor)
     
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  8. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

    I'm still waiting for my sole auction win to arrive. Does he typically send an email confirmation when an order ships?

    Edit: Nevermind, it just showed up in today's mail. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
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  9. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Reviving this interesting and informative thread as I'd like to share a half-baked theory on the Manlia Scantilla-Julia Domna alteration situation. I conjured this theory up about fifteen minutes ago, and I have very little knowledge about these matters, so Half-Baked Internet Theory Alert! :nailbiting:

    The Theory: You can tell a Manlia Scantilla coin from Julia Domna by the (nascent) double chin on the former. Julia Domna is never shown double-chinned - her jawline is firmly horizontal (at least that I could find). Manlia Scantilla's jawline is show at a roughly 45-degree angle; on better preserved specimens you can actually see a slight jowl. The Woodward plates (linked by @Roman Collector above) seem to support this double-chin theory. So do the coins RC features in the OP.

    Julia Domna (from various auctions on acsearch; I can provide full references; the pic titles include the auction house) - note the firm, horizontally-oriented jawline:

    Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1  CGB.jpg

    Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 bertolami pic.jpg

    Julia Domna - Sest IVNO REGINA - auct1 Elsen pic.jpg

    Manlia Scantilla - note the slope of her jawline, age-appropriate for a Roman Matron (acsearch auctions):

    Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Naumann.jpg
    Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma pic.jpg
    Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Roma2 pic.jpg

    This one is a bit ambiguous, somewhat diminishing my half-baked theory; but the chin/jaw is shorter than is usually seen on Julia Domna, if not sloped so much as the others:

    Manlia Scantilla - Sest. IVNO REGINA RIC 18 - auct1 Solidus pic.jpg

    The reason I am bringing this up is because of lot of very low-grade AEs I'm working on, which included this gem (18.23 grams on a dumpy 25 mm flan); the portrait just didn't look entirely like Julia Domna to me, so I started poking around the web and came across this CT post, and started looking a acsearch auctions, etc.:

    Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0).jpg

    So as you can see, as with all half-baked theories, I have an ulterior motive - I want to own a $5 Manlia Scantilla sestertius!! :jawdrop::D:joyful::bucktooth:

    Unfortunately, none of the legend is visible, just a few ghost letters amongst the pitting, perhaps. But look at that jawline! :sorry:

    Julia Domna or Sest IVON REG lot May 2022 (0det5).jpg

    Were I energetic, talented and dishonest, this could be smoothed and engraved into a definite Manlia Scantilla. But that's not going to happen on my watch - just a half-baked theory about Manlia Scantilla's slightly sagging jaw line. A boy can dream, can't he? :woot:

    Please feel free to demolish my jawline theory. Or tell me this theory already exists, in a footnote in RIC from 75 years ago. You won't hurt my feelings. :)
     
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  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    There were a limited number of reverse dies used to strike this coin for Manlia Scantilla, and most of the dies have readily distinguishable features (read their descriptions and look at the illustrations in the Woodward article). Look at genuine examples sold at auction and see if you can find a reverse die match to your coin. If your coin is a reverse die match to one of them, BINGO -- you have a $5.00 Manlia Scantilla!
     
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  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I hadn't thought about looking at the reverse dies. Hmmm.

    Woodward Plate IX number 6: Juno with freakishly large forearm (Popeye the Sailorman) held out at an angle away from body. Upper arm and elbow held close to body. Hand holding sceptre level with shoulders. Sorta like mine, maybe?

    Well, for five bucks, I'm never going to get full closure, I suppose. :angelic:
     
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