No consensus about the mint(s) for Postumus - Moneta

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by cmezner, May 22, 2022.

  1. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Does anyone have recent information about this type?

    It is not straightforward to attribute Postumus Antoniniani.

    Treveri was the main mint of Postumus; other mints were Cologne (Colonia Claudia Agrippina Augusta) and Milan (Mediolanum). At the Treveri mint 10 emissions were struck from mid 260 until mid 269; at Cologne, 2 emissions were struck from 268 until early 269 AD and at Milan, 4 emissions from early 268 to mid 268 AD.

    The attribution to mints in Cologne and Lyon are from RIC of 1933, but already in 1941 Elmer rejected Lyon, and referred to mints in Cologne and Treveri. The attribution to Treveri seems to be from Besly, Edward; Bland, Roger (1983). “The Cunetio Treasure”. Elmer and C. F. Zschucke do not attribute Postumus coins to Treveri but to Cologne. Nowadays, Cologne is always considered the mint (RIC 315).

    See also https://www.cointalk.com/threads/postumus-mints.308149/#post-2947866

    Please share your Postumus/Moneta Antoniniani if possible with your attribution (Treveri, Cologne, Lyon or Mediolanum) or anything you deem relevant.

    My recent Postumus catch, which still has nice silvering - apologies for the bad pictures:

    3.52 g
    Treveri or Cologne, 261/262 AD, 3rd emission, 1st phase, officina C
    Mairat 65-9; AGK 45; RSC 199a; Sear 10962; Schulzki 56, Nr. 45 (Cologne or Treveri), Zschucke 138 (Köln), Elmer 336; Cunetio 2404 or 2413 (Treveri); RIC V, 75 or RIC V, 315(c) Köln; Elmer/Zschucke 10th emission, Köln, 263 AD.
    Ob.: IMP C POSTVMVS P F AVG Radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust to r.
    Rev.: MONETA AVG Moneta standing to l., holding scales and cornucopia
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  3. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Your photos are so blurry I can't make an accurate comparison, but I think the coin I sold in a CNG auction is the same as yours, pictured below.

    Postumus, double denarius.jpg
    ROMAN-GALLIC EMPIRE. Postumus, AD 260-269 (struck AD263-265) Trier Mint, 3rd emission, 1st phase. Billon Antoninianus: 4.28 gm, 18.5 mm, 7 h. RIC V 75; Mairat 65-9; AGK 45; RSC 199a. Ex Al Kowsky Collection.
     
  4. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    In fact it’s Otto Vœtter’s fault. in 1901, he attributed Gallienus’s Gallic coinage to the mint of Lyon and found some stylistic link with the first coins in Postumus’s name… About the location of the two mints under the Gallic rulers, we have only two absolute truths: Postumus has coins with the legend COL CL AGRIP COS IIII and C C A A COS IIII, so there was a mint at Cologne. 2) In 2005, archaeologists have discovered the remains of a monetary workshop in the city of Trier: in addition to 300 brand new Tetricus coins ( some of them were attributed to Cologne by Elmer !) they have found a piece of a bronze ingot, many copper bars and molds. So it’s sure there was a mint there during the reign of the Tetrici. So what exactly happened between 260 AD-274 is unknown, but as you said there are new hypothesis every 30 years…

    Here are coins from the three mints under Postumus:

    Milan
    36ECA539-BB0A-408E-8B22-EF8484E53D6C.jpeg
    Trier

    5AB651AD-B84B-4787-80D1-6074417E59D3.jpeg
    Cologne
    0935381A-999A-4E45-B9F8-67AD795A9974.jpeg
     
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  5. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    The attribution of Postumus mints depends on which language(s) you speak and most importantly, read. :happy:
     
  6. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Yes, it is definitely the same. Will work hard on making better pictures during the week :shy:
     
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  7. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

  8. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I don't believe there has ever been any question where the coin pictured below was minted ;).
    Postumus sestertius, AWK Collection.jpg
    ROMANO-GALLIC EMPIRE. Postumus, AD 260-269 (struck AD 261), Trier Mint, 3rd emission. AE Sestertius: 25.49 gm, 31.5 mm, 6 h. RIC V 170; Banti 61.
    Al Kowsky Collection
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
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  9. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    It looks like on coins from Cologne, Postumus is younger and is smiling.
    Thank you so much for the link!
     
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  10. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    I have one and had the same struggles determining any certain mint from references. I just have this one cataloged as uncertain mint RIC V 75/315. Any guidance to be more specific would be awesome.
    Postumus_MonetaAvg_75-315.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
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  11. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    Postumus 2.jpg This is an extremely debased Moneta Aug. antoninianus, 2.90 g, probably minted in the last year of his reign: it looks like pure bronze. Could it be an imitation? I have nothing special to say about its mint (Trier, Cologne, elsewhere?).

    It was in a purse of 20 AE antoniniani of Postumus, Gallienus, Salonina, Victorinus, Tetricus I and II. In this purse were 2 Postumus coins, this one and another one :

    Postumus 1.jpg This COS IIII antoninianus, 2.98 g, is dated 268 and generally attributed to Cologne, also to Trier.

    I am not a specialist of Postumus' coinage. I just notice that, in ACsearch, all Moneta Aug. antoniniani seem to be in (debased) silver, at least they look white or grey, and are temptatively sated 261 or 263-5. For coins dated cos. IIII or cos. V, many - not all - look like bronze antoniniani, like the ones minted in Milan in 268 by Aureolus.

    These 2 Postumus AE antoniniani were still circulating under Tetricus and had the value of a Tetricus AE antoninianus. The Moneta Aug. specimen cannot be dated 261 or 263-5, when billion was a better alloy and antoniniani much heavier; it is obviously contemporaneous with the cos. IIII specimen and both were minted in 268.

    If the Moneta Aug. antoninianus is an imitation, the forger (or unofficial celator) carved excellent dies of good official style... A last thing : is this coin overstruck on some older AE antoninianus? Under Postumus' bust there could be traces of letters not belonging to Postumus' legend. But these traces could also be an illusion...
     
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  12. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    In my haste to post my coin and get a quick answer from those more familiar with these than myself... @DonnaML I missed your excellent resource link. I have been spending time scrolling through the pictures and drooling after download and have yet to spend the time to find my coin... but I will!

    This is such a spectacular resource that it makes me think we need to create (or need to resurrect) a thread on the fabulous downloadable resources that are available. I know everyone has their own great links, by combining minds and resources, we could build a great CT library!
     
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  13. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    My Moneta:

    P1150297moneta.jpg
     
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  14. Jims Coins

    Jims Coins Well-Known Member

    Silver coin (AR Antoninianus) minted at Lugdunum during the reign of POSTUMUS between 259 - 268 A.D. Obv. IMP.C.POSTVMVS.P.F.AVG.: Radiate, draped & cuir. bust r. Rev. MONETA.AVG.: Moneta standing l., holding scales and cornucopia. RCS #3116. RSCIV #199a pg.131. RICV #75 pg.343. DVM #32.


    GAA-255 OBV.jpg GAA-255 REV.jpg
     
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  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Here's the entry for Mairat's book at Numiswiki, together with the following breakdown of the different pdf links with reference to their contents: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Mairat

    PDF Files

    Volume 1 Text
    Postumus
    Trier p. 396
    Cologne p. 597
    Laelianus
    Cologne p. 626
    Marius
    Trier p. 632
    Cologne p. 641
    Victorinus
    Trier p. 648
    Cologne p. 692

    Volume 2 Plates
    Part1.pdf
    Postumus
    Trier, issues 1 - 4, plates 1 - 98

    Part2.pdf
    Postumus
    Trier plates 99 - 198

    Part3.pdf
    Postumus
    Trier plates 199 - 215
    Cologne plates 216 - 237
    Milan plates 237 - 247
    Laelianus plates - 248 - 255
    Marius plates 255 - 271
    Victorinus plates 271 - 298

    Part4.pdf
    Victorinus plates 299 - 398

    Part5.pdf
    Tetricus I
    Trier plates 399 - 438
    Cologne plates 438 - 446

    I think Numiswiki is currently the best source for numismatic books available for download, with links.
     
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  16. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    After spending hours reading through Mairat's book (Thank you so very much @DonnaML for sharing the link to this excellent source) I am attributing the OP Antoninianus as:

    Treveri, 262/263, Mairat issue 4, 246-247, officina B, p. 117; Thesis Jeromé Mairat, 2014, “The Coinage of the Gallic Empire”, Plate 99, Volume 2_part2.pdf

    I couldn't find in any of the volumes a Moneta reverse with the attribution

    Tried to take some better pictures, but I'm afraid they are still not good enough.

    upload_2022-5-24_15-6-9.png upload_2022-5-24_15-6-21.png
     
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