Since im still learning to grade coins I had this question for any advanced graders. For example take the Morgan Dollar series. A nice clean coin that would grade in less say ms-63 to ms-65 has a rim nick or ding your choice of wording that is small but noticable to the eye. How badly does this effect the coin as it is still very nice and better than average even with the minor ding. Do you go by the size of a ding or is a dinged coin doomed to make the grade? Thanks for any replies guys.
With Morgans and TPG's it is doomed. To me a rim ding is a flattened area on the rim, a rim tick is just a little nick on the edge of the rim. I think it varies by coin type. I have seen some coppers graded where you could see a little tick mark that did not bother me. And depending on the size of the ding it can impact the price.
I agree with Mark, I relate rim ding with a flattened area on the rim; which is usually fairly noticeable on a Morgan. In the case of a true rim ding I would expect the TPGs to give a details grade. But there are many Morgan dollars graded MS by TPGs that have many small nicks and scrapes on the rim. Imo it seems to be most common on CCs. ( 1878-CC 1882-CC). In the case of these small nicks and scrapes the grade isn't affected.
Took me years to learn rim-dings are murder. On large coins as they are often the ones it's like "in your face"! These worst effects, in my experience are mostly with collector coins in grades VF to AU. A bad rim-ding can lower an AU to VF-35, 30. It's bad, very bad because believe it or not until you can really look at all the coins features you may miss some of these because they are on the edge and the edge is not something we normally look at before having a lot of training. TPG companies murder these coins, an MS-63 with rim ding may get an MS-60 grade or not graded. They are bad because once seen it's the thing you will see each and every other time you look at that coin forever. That is one reason we covet so AU-58 coins. They are perfect in many cases but with just slight rub and can be found undervalued often with luster, strike and free of any problems - it's almost the best of both worlds. It's good activity to pull out all you coins (esp. the large ones) on occasion and re-examine them for dings of any kind.
It seems to me that a rim ding is nothing more than a contact mark on the rim. I can understand why it could affect the grade, but why would a TPG give it a details grade only because of this? It's not like it's something that is going to get worse over time.
Because a rim ding is considered damage, so the TPGs aren't going to put it in a regular holder. Here's a good example: 1899 $1 --Obverse Rim Damaged--NCS. UNC Details. NGC Census: (43/5996). PCGS Population (37/8669). Mintage: 330,846. Numisme... Morgan Dollars And it's not uncommon: Search results for: rim
It's really a thin line, light hits tend to be ignored, but if it is a strong hit (that stands out on the coin) it's probably going to be considered damage. Just like a heavy scratch on the face of a coin could cause it to get body-bagged (Genuine/Details, because TPGs no longer BB). So I don't think there's an exact guideline they have, it's up to the graders to decide if the hit is strong enough to warrant a Details grade. But imo if there is flattening of the rim it's not going to grade.
Contact marks can and are often from normal circulation. Rim-dings are damge, the coin was droppped or hit. Rim-dings don't come from normal circulation. I agree it's sometimes a fine line but with the rim ding it's (remember) the third die or edge, surface of the coin, and as we are learning a fragil one at that.
I'm really horrible at grading coins. However, to me a coins grade is irrivelvant since I collect them for myself and have no intensions of selling them. So as long as a coin is appealing to me, some minor dink, dent, bonk is to trivial. And again, however, at coin shows I have heard so many times that "I can't buy that coin for that with that DENT there. Of how can you ask that much with that DENT? After such people left that table I would look at that same coin. To me the so called DENTS were only visable with a magnifying glass. So I guess regardless of the size of the DENTS, DINGS, ETC., it really does effect the price of the coins and I suppose the larger the thing, the less valuable to most. YET there are many others that would be glad to just have that coin anyway. So as with many other things about coins, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
ok, here's my proverbial cast into the sea of rim dings. This is a 1921-D. What do these rim dings at the bottom of this coin do to its value? They only show on the obverse.
As with scratches and other sorts of damage, with rim dings it's a matter of severity. Rim dings are not just contact marks, they are more than that, worse than that, more severe than contact marks. The way I look at it like this - if a rim ding is severe enough that it dents the coin bad enough that the outer edge of the rim (not the entire edge mind you, just that rim on that side of the coin) is not round anymore - then the coin is body-bag material. But small nicks in the rim are not severe enough to warrant a body-bag.
It is a nice way of putting it. I have boughten a few coins with minor rim dings over the years also. The neat thing is that they are not very noticable at all, and the prices were usually around 40% less than a no problem coin in the same condition.
Thanks for the replies everyone. What I am learning (I think) is that the more common and available the coin is the more that a nick or ding will be precieved as bad where as with a rarer coin it could possibly be less damaging grade wise I guess.:thumb:
My car has dings and scratches, and so do my coins. I love reaching in my junk silver bag and pulling out a handful of dented Morgans, Franklins with holes drilled in them, quarters so smooth you would think they were poker chips. I love the history of them, where they have been. I live in the Chicago area. I might have a Peace dollar that was in John Dillinger's pocket, or spent in one of Al Capone's speakeasies. That is way cool.
Dings, Nics,& Tics none are very eye appealing, but as someone mentioned earlier you can get a real descent coin at discounted prices. Personally I shy away from them, but there are times when the price is right I'm like a hobo on a hotdog. If the dings are severe enough they should effect the grade, otherwise I feel it deserves a normal grade, but a lower value...
