Colour grading?

Have you ever heard of "colour grades" being assigned to coins before?

Me neither until today, where i was chastised in a Facebook coin group for not understanding the expression "BN" that appeared on an NGC slab.

Apparently copper coins can be graded "Brown", "Red Brown" or "Red". And I was told the difference in value between a "Brown" and a "Red" could be a house! I'm yet to see an example of such a remarkable price difference, riding entirely on colour.

I already thought Sheldon Scale marks out of 70 were silly enough - as though we should care about the almost indiscernible differences between an MS63 and MS64!

Is colour grading a new thing? I've been collecting coins for years and never heard of it until now!

 

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Ya, it's mostly related to US cents, primarily Indian and Lincoln. I always considered it kinda funny, but it is somewhat related to the "cabinet tone" thing in ancient coins. This kind of thing really get weird with rainbow "toning" in Morgan silver dollars. With the right colors, a $75 coin can fetch north of $1,000 depending on where the colors are, which supposedly formed when the silver dollars were stored together in bags, intimately touching each other.

P.S. I dropped off FB about three years ago. I'm so much happier.

 

Thank you for elucidating. I thought I was reasonably knowledgeable about coins, until I discovered this new thing! Like the Sheldon Scale, i believe it's a case of the emperor's new clothes.

 

Get ready to "lose the house" when the red turns to brown as copper usually does. Ancients are so much simpler.

 

Its not mostly related to US cents or primarily Indian and Lincols. Its how you grade things of certain metals which expand far more than those two or even US coins

 

Yes, unfortunately today i exceeded my daily quota of discretionary spare time for arguing over the internet with strangers about trivia. I said that I don't understand the benefit (at least for people who can see) in having a coin's colour certified by a grading company. The hostility I experienced was quite amazing for something so inconsequential.

 

Not for ancient coins it isn't.

 

Have a read of this article.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6605/learn-grading-red-brown-copper/

 

Very informative. Also it's next-level crazy.

As collectors of ancient coins, we'd consider a "Red"-designated coin to be undesirable, having no patina. It seems some modern collectors feel the opposite.

 

Yes, and unfortunately, what some people purchase for a large sum, slabbed and attributed as red, become significantly reduced in value as they tone to red/brown and then brown. Which is why the top tier graders only guarantee their attribution for about 10 years I believe.

 

To avoid confusion about grading, from now on I'll only look at my coins in the dark.

 

I guess when the freshness expires (i.e. oxidation proceeds) you could dip it and apply a fake rainbow toning ?

Kinda like a supermarket chicken on it's path from frozen to rotisserie to chicken salad.

 

I don't collect early American copper coins but can understand the allure of seeing a large cent nearly 200 years old with original RED color, & can also appreciate why some collectors will pay astronomical prices for them. The large cent pictured below is a good example. Who wouldn't be charmed by this lovely coin ?
USA, Large Cent, Medium letters. Copper: 10.89 gm, 28.00 mm. MS65+RD. Mintage: 5,558,300. Goldberg Auctions, Feb. 1, 2009, $35,650.00.

Only 1 coin exists in this grade with original red color. The same coin with brown color would be worth about $2,500.00.

 

Finally, after reading this thread, I’m happy to be color blind !

 

Well, consider me educated! That’s an astonishing price difference for a patinated vs unpatinated coin. The owner would need to protect the coin from oxygen! How long do you think that will last?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I like a coin with a little toning and patina personally. But yes, it is a lovely coin.

It’s also an absurd example of artificial rarity. With a mintage of 5.5 million, it’s hardly a rare coin. But once you assign a mark out of seventy, and a colour - suddenly we have a miracle - an amazing rarity. This is actually a form of OCD.

I’ve heard there are also collectors who are trying to accumulate a complete set of Sheldon numbers. And collectors aiming to collect a set of coins at the lowest possible grade. Amazing!

 

Copper is a very volatile metal, it begins to tone as soon as it is struck. So, a 200 year old coin still graded as red is a rarity.
If you understood the amount of use these coins got and how easily one can go from MS to AU. You wouldn't have the same thoughts.
Too each his own Greg.

 

It is amazing to think that a number of these early American copper coins have retained their original red color without being slabbed for a long time ! Of course most of these early red coppers are slabbed now. There are parallels to this phenomenon with ancient coins, particularly with Diocletian era nummi. The coin pictured below is a good example. This coin has it's original finish that hasn't been impaired by cleaning, & it's 1,700 years old . I bought the coin raw & had it slabbed to protect its' finish .

 

Why doesn't one come across more uncleaned nummi? I'd like to find a nice green one.

 

They're out there, but auction houses tend to go for the silvered ones that bring the strong bids. Personally, I prefer a clean green/brown over an even remotely splotchy silvering.


I don't understand paying orders of magnitude more for single point increases between 67/68/69/70 when I can't even tell the difference between a 67 and a 70. I do understand the appeal of a brilliant red coin over a mottled one or an even brown. Not enough to stake my house on, but I would pay a premium.

I only have one late 19th century RD bronze, let alone early 19th century!

 

U.S. coin collecting seems to be dominated by considerations of condition - minute differences in grade, color, luster, strike, etc., and how those facets affect market value. I may be wrong, but the impression I get is that most collectors of U.S. coins are speculators at heart. That's not a criticism on my part, just an observation. I don't understand the obsessive focus on condition, but I'm cut from a different cloth, that's all. My wife collects little porcelain figurines and marbles, and takes as much delight in those as I take in my coins, and I don't understand that either.

If you look at the US Coin Forum on any day, it's saturated with discussions about minute differences in grade and toning. Occasionally someone will venture into a discussion of something other than condition: aesthetics, history, economics, technology, culture, etc., but those discussions get very little traction. I happen to appreciate the work of engraver Gilroy Roberts, and posted a thread about it here, which received only a few likes and no responses. (Which is fine - I'm not looking for attention, just enjoying my hobby.) But post a GTG (guess the grade) thread, and you'll get pages of responses.

I'm honestly not belittling anyone's collecting preference, though, so please don't take it that way - just making an observation.