Help with Grade - 1822 Large Cent

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by kanga, Apr 9, 2022.

  1. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    I'm considering buying this coin.
    It's graded NGC MS-61.
    To me it looks to be a higher grade.

    I see what appears to be a scratch from the ear lobe in the k5 direction.
    And I see a verdigris(?) spot between star 1 and star 2.
    On the reverse the "scratch" going vertically through the "U" to the rim appears to be on the slab since it continues beyond the edge of the coin.

    Why only MS-61? What am I missing?
    If I think it's MS-62 it's worth about $200 more than an MS-61.
    And if I think it's MS-63 it's worth about $500 more than an MS-61.

    1-1822-o.jpg 1-1822-r.jpg
     
    Morgandude11 likes this.
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  3. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Both those scratches look to be on the slab.
    I really don't know much about grading these.
    I wonder if this coin was retoned. The orange color is usually a sign of a cleaning.
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  4. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    I would have expected a DETAILS grade if NGC thought it had been cleaned.
    It's straight graded.
     
  5. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    The hair above the teria appears to be weakly struck. The ribbon and laurel stem appear flat.
     
  6. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    AU Details. I guess MS61 is a gift.:)
     
  7. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Old cleanings, in this case would be a dip to remove everything from the surface and retoned. Seems be acceptable to the TPG's nowadays.
    I am not sure of this I would wait for more experienced folks.
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  8. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

  9. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Toning is splotchy and a bit odd-colored, possibly an old cleaning..

    There is what appears to be a scratch (retoned) through the ear lobe that almost lines up with the white-colored scratch which may well be on the slab, just accidentally lining up with the earlobe.

    Yes to the verdigris spot.

    Obverse is pretty weakly struck via top of hair and bun and stars.

    I think I see some touches of rub/wear on the obverse.

    Some kind of a gouge under the eye.

    Reverse looks to have some rub/wear on upper-most surfaces.

    I won't cop out on my opinion but I would really like to see this one in hand.

    Plus, I generally don't buy slabbed early copper if there's evident verdigris. While proper storage may prevent it from spreading there's no guarantee of halting it.

    I did a preliminary attribution and this appears to be common R-2 coin so there's no impetus to purchase this due to rarity.

    Overall, I would call this an AU-58 but with questionable color. I would call it EAC 58 sharpness and EAC Net 55.

    So, my conclusion would be a slider to 61, not a 62. You can probably do better.
     
  10. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    61 looks right to me.
     
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  11. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I like the coin. The color is appealing to me, and the coin has eye appeal. I see nothing that would impede a MS 61 grade. If it had no marks, then it would be a 63 based on strike. However, I see nothing indicating circulation wear, or damage to make it a details coin. Old cleaning? Perhaps, but I don’t see cleaning marks. So I agree with @ldhair. It is a solid 61 to me.
     
  12. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Thanks for all the responses.
     
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