Details Coins

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I have bought a few details coins over the years. They had minor problems I could live with. Some of them would probably straight grade in today's grading standards. I have one rule, I wont break. No matter how rare or how much I need a coin, I won't buy ugly. An ugly coin will always be ugly. The price can't help that.

 

It depends. Sometimes you can get great value in a details holder. And sometimes I find coins in details holders that seem to have no reason for it. Other times coins in details holders may have a trace of rim filing that is hidden by the slab prongs. Others have major corrosion. There is no "one size fits all" for details coins. You have to examine the coin and decide what it's worth to you.

 

I usually try to avoid details coins but have purchased a few early american coppers with very minor environmental/corrosion problems which kept them from straight grading. I've cracked them out for my 7070 type album.

 

There is one "one size fits all": It must be "Genuine".

 

I've been collecting coins since the early 1960's so I've seen a lot of coins and have gone to a lot of shows. There is one thing I know and that is there are a lot of "details" coins sitting in straight graded PCGS & NGC slabs. There are a number of coins that were given details grades but were never messed with. If you want to see what I'm talking about look at any light colored circulated seated dollar. If you see a seated dollar that has been straight graded that is a light even gray color or looks somewhat washed out that coin was likely cleaned or dipped. The same can be said about any mint state seated dollar that is bright white at a minimum the coins were dipped. There is almost no way an early silver coin can remain "white" for 150 years. They had no way to protect their coins back then so over time they would all have toned some would even turn black. So, anyone that claims they don't own or won't buy a details graded coin may already have one in their collection and not even know it. I have seem many statements over the years that admit that most early coins were messed with at some point in the past. I don't know the numbers but for seated dollars that number could be 80 percent have had something done to them. The reason these coins get straight graded is because they are given a pass by the grading services. If they rejected 80% of the seated dollars they would piss off a lot of collectors and dealers so they let a lot slide by.

 

There definably is a market for the detail coins, if you find an auction for one you like and you win that coin for $251 you must admit that the bid before was $250. This says to me the winner liked the coin only $1 better than the loser. Not all collectors are financially able to fill that key hole without settling for something less. Do you know anyone who would send a Spitting Eagle VAM or its equal to melt for a details holder? There will always be collectors who can afford the price and they do an important service preserving history with their pristine pieces and there are those who enjoy the hobby through those pieces they can afford. I don't think it fair to judge by what one can afford therefore leaving an important place for a details coin.

 

As a researcher, writer and collector of counterfeits I have to note "details coins" is an area where I have found many counterfeits- the counterfeiters artificially weather/ corrode many of their "coins" to try to hide the truth about them. As a result, in my opinion, TPGs have recently begun returning many genuine examples back as "unverifiable", which can be pretty frustrating to the owner especially if it is a rarer variety, etc.

There are opportunities in detail type coins including my no date 1793 S-16 large cent sold on the Bay as a '94, but that may be the only one I actually will come out ahead on in the long run...

I have always been interested in early large cents and have recently changed my focus to ones with counterstamps; maybe I'm just fooling myself that they aren't "details coins"...

Image is an example that certainly shouldn't be in a genuine holder for many reasons but is:

 

Yup. One of the things about this hobby that always makes me chuckle is the phrase "market acceptable." It's either cleaned or it isn't! The job of the TPG is to grade the coin, not tell us what's "market acceptable" and what isn't. When I buy a "details" coin, it's automatically market acceptable. I'm the market, and I bought it! I know this is never going to change, of course.

 

I keep seeing the term "what I can live with " and I agree.... as if you didn't pull the trigger on this one there may not be another in your life time.
Again its a personal choice and what 1 can afford. Im retired now...not by choice...but at this point I do not have the income I had 2 years ago. Im not hurting but making good choices as I do not want to out live my nest egg.
Besides who do you need answer to other than yourself? I could honesty care less about what another thinks about my collection....I please me...not others....and if another 1851/2 comes along thats not details maybe Ill take a shot...but if not...I got mine even if its details.

 

Here is a picture of my 1845 seated dollar graded AU 55 by NGC. Technically, this coin has been dipped sometime in the past. Dipping a coin is a type of cleaning but, because this was commonly done in the past and still is done today in most cases it gets a pass. Take a good look at my dollar. I'm 95% sure it was dipped at least once in the past. However, it is still a really nice coin. Technically it's a "Details" coin but not graded as such.

The most ridicules term I see on a slab is SALTWATER AFFECT. Come on folks that coin sat on the bottom of the ocean for over 150 years and had to undergo a serious cleaning to get the crust off it. These coins are all pitted from saltwater corrosion. They are all white and the corrosion has eaten away at the coins details. If those coins weren't in a slab with a ship name on it plus being graded as "Saltwater Affect" no one would buy them. They put them in a fancy box with a story and amazingly now they can sell them for hundreds of dollars.

 

Salt of the Earth, right there......

 

Here's mine a nicely preserved 8 reale from the El Cazador its my first Spanish 8 reale and for 100 bucks I couldn't resist.With a nice clear date and lots of nice details underneath all the sea residue.

 

I agree its been dipped...as for the salt water details I agree also. Ok so gold does not corrode, but if it was sunken treasure again for 200 years why isn't it also placed in a salt water slab?
You see the same on 1 pesos from the Philippines yeah just about 95% were cased up and tossed in the Bay to keep it from the Japanese . So if you collect this series is you entire collection detailed?

I have never been a fan of TPG's 97% of my collection is raw or self slabed as That way I know whats on the slab as well the 2x2 is correct.

 

It seems mine is different then most it wasn't really extremely expensive as some you've probably seen.For 100 bucks isn't a bad price for a 8 reale even if it has corrosion from being underwater.I find myself to be pretty lucky finding one much lower then usual and appreciate the history.

 

I have a few "details" coins in my type set, Primary reason is admitedly "cost" I'd rather have a beautiful AU "details" coin in the set over say an AG which is what i might afford at going prices.. here are 3 from my type set.... and as i've said before "these are details i can live with"
details "cleaned"

details "stained"

and
Details Rev Damage (scratch)

 

From my collection; different levels of details but all 3 struck counterfeits:

 

Many years ago, I inherited half of my father's coin collection. It wasn't much, but it got me into coin collecting. A couple of years later, after reading several books about coins, I decided to but a gold coin. I actually bought 2. The local coin dealer had several gold coins. I bought two gold coins, both RAW. One was an 1895 Liberty Head Variety 2 Motto Above Eagle One-Half Ounce Gold Coin and the other is a 1904 Liberty Head One Ounce Double Eagle Gold Coin. The dealer was headed to a show and offered to have mine graded. He told me that they both would probably grade MS 61. I agreed. When he came back with my graded coins, the 1895 graded by NGC, MS61, however, the 1904 "graded" "UNC DETAILS, OBV Scratched by NGC. The dealer offered to reimburse me for the coins and the cost to grading. I decided to keep them. I still think they are very nice coins and will not sell them. I learned a lesson that I never want to forget.

 

Great story - it reminds me, I bought 2 Standing Liberty Quarters at a local auction that, after examination, I thought both were uncirculated and probably Full Head for $150 each - one graded MS63 FH - the other AU53 Cleaned! It wasn't an obvious cleaning, but ICG has been fair and honest with my submissions in my view, and that was a good lesson on what to look for under magnification. I still love the coins and am pleased to have them.

 

I just ran across my invoice for this DETAILS purchase.
Here is the corrected/amended version:
"The other is a 1796 Dime, JR-3, R-5, AU DETAILS.
Reason: It's a $15,000 coin that I got for about one-third of catalog."