Proof or Prooflike Morgan Dollar?!

So I just bought this 1882 Morgan dollar at my local shop (for $55!!!) and I know it's at least a proof like, but could it possibly be a proof? The shop owner said that he had an older guy coming in every week with some more Morgans, so I really doubt this is a fake coin, it feels like a real one, weighs the same etc. I also know it's not the proof like effect of the coins minted in San Francisco, those can be quite reflective too. Anyway what do you think, proof like or proof? Also if you don't mind, could you give me a rough grade for it? I would estimate around 63. I also included the edge in the photos because it doesn't look as square as a regular circulation Morgan dollar edge.

 

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Don't handle the coin with bare fingers, use protective gloves.

 

Doesn’t look like a proof

 

I was transferring it to a better holder than what it came in. I know not to touch the surface and not to handle it too much in general.

 

It is neither proof like, nor is it a proof. It is just an ordinary 1882, with decent luster. Hard to tell anything, as you have your fingers all over the coin. Cannot tell grade accurately with those pictures. My guess is an ordinary low to mid grade MS coin. It is only a guess with those pictures.

 

MS62ish, and hard to judge the reflectivity. But not a proof.

 

What made you think it was "at least" PL ?

Did you do the PL-test ?

 

The PL test is very inexact. The only PL coins are those with a PL designation from a TPG. Others could be argued back and forth.

 

These are only iPhone photos so obviously not the best, but I'll take some much better photos with my actual camera later this evening. I felt confident that it was proof like because the denticles are really sharp and it has the weird effect where it warps around the details, like as the light gets closer to a detail from the fields it warps a bit which is not normal at all for regular luster. I know a good bit on Morgan dollars but not quite as much for proof or proof like (but I know a heck of a lot on toned Morgan dollars) because that's not really what I find most interesting, so I can tell by eye that it is certainly not a normal strike. I have never seen a normal MS graded coin with as much reflectivity as this one.

By the way what is the PL test?

 

It’s not a proof and it’s not proof like. It nice looking and has decent mint luster.

 

I'll let one of the Morgan experts chime in, but basically you need to be able to see a reflection in the fields for PL or DMPL or something like that.

 

He's doing it right. Barely anyone uses gloves. They increase your chance of dropping the coin among other things.

 

I have owned thousands of Morgans. Virtually all MS Morgans look exactly like that. Your photos are inadequate, but I see no cameo, or die polish striations in those photos. It is not proof like.

 

Here is a typical PL coin. Note that brightness is not the only criterion for PL. Look at the devices—they are very frosty. Look at the fields, they have striations from the die polish. This creates a cameo contrast, that is highly characteristic of PL coins. Yours has none of those qualities.

 

Is luster on Morgans or silver coins created the same way as with gold coins/Saint: microscopic ridges and imperfections in the smooth surface as the metal die gets worn, thus letting light reflect off it to create the luster effect ?

 

There is no cameo requirement for PL or DMPL - it is about reflectivity of the fields. Most do have a cameo, but it is not required.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-adds-pl-and-dmpl-designations:

PCGS defines surface Prooflike as clear reflection in the fields on both sides as viewed from two to four inches away. A misty effect or striations may impede the reflectivity.

The PCGS definition for Deep Mirror Prooflike is clear reflection in the fields on both sides from at least six inches away. There must be full, undistorted reflectivity on both the obverse and reverse.

 

What causes luster on silver coins and/or Morgan Dollars ? Same as on gold coins ?

 

I've never seen a US gold coin, but for luster on Morgan dollars it is created when the metal spreads out into the planchet casing from the center to the outside. It creates lines and very small ridges that go from the center to the outside which reflect light uniformly and make the cartwheel effect on the luster. Proof and prooflike coins use the same planchets but the dies are pressed with much higher pressure, and since the dies are polished to be really flat, the ridges on the planchets get smoothed out, which in turn reduces the smooth cartwheel luster and makes a mirrored surface.

Sorry I don't have photos, but I have even better... a video! Hopefully you can clearly see the mirrored surface, sharp details, and especially the "cameo" finish that @Morgandude11 was mentioning on the reverse and obverse.

Here's the link:



Let me know if it doesn't work, CT won't allow videos to be uploaded into messages...

 

There is no requirement, but 95% of the PL coins have it. No grader measures 6 inches—they all do it by eye. I know graders and former graders, and not a single one actually measures the amount of reflectivity. They know, and sense it by eye.