An ugly Probus but I am happy with it

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by maridvnvm, Mar 25, 2022.

  1. barnaba6

    barnaba6 Well-Known Member

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  3. barnaba6

    barnaba6 Well-Known Member

    Here is also a very interesting bust type from Lugdunum, although from the 9th emmission rather than the 5th emmission. It's one of my favorite coins from Lugdunum:

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    This coin is not listed neither in RIC nor in Bastien's original catalogue. It is however listed (this very example!) in Bastien's SUPPLEMENT II under no. 372β

    What makes the coin highly interesting is of course the extremely rare and desirable consular bust with emperor's right hand raised.

    The coin comes from the collection of my numismatic master and friend the late Philippe Gysen, ex Italo Vecchi, London Auktion 7 (1997), lot 1009.

    The coin in question is currently offered on auction together with 92 other coins from my specialized Probus and Aurelian collection:

    Roman Empire, Aurelian, Antoninian Lugdunum - Online auction / Online bidding - Price (onebid.pl)

    For more information about the auction please see the link below:

    www.cointalk.com/threads/rare-probus-and-aurelian-coins-on-auction-on-10th-april.394637/

    For anyone interested in Probus' life and coinage in general I highly recommend the below excellent biography of the emperor Probus written by prof. Kaczanowicz, downloadable for free!

    (PDF) Probus the Emperor | Wiesław Kaczanowicz - Academia.edu
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
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  4. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    MARS VICTOR

    In much the same way as the early issues (2 and 3) above I struggle differentiating between emission 2 and 3. I really need to see if I can figure it out by studying the plates in Bastien. As such I err on the side of caution and allocate early coins to emission 3.

    The MARS VICTOR coins were produced by both Officina 2 and 3. It would appear from what I have seen on the market over the years that the officina 2 output was much more sizeable than that officina 3

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    Emission 4 shortens the obverse legend to IMP C PROBVS P F AVG.

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    Emission 5 has the interesting busts and there are beautiful examples illustrated by @Tejas and @barnaba6 above.
    My OP has my Radiate, cuirassed bust right holding spear
    Officina 2 (II)
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    Officina 3 (III)
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    Now we have the bust style transition to a smaller. narrower bust with more of the cuirass visible. We also have the regular introduction of the Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from rear. The obverse legend can also be found with the longer IMP C M AVR PROBVS P F AVG. It would also appear that Officina 4 wanted to get into the act and there is a very small output known from this officina (see below)

    Officina 2 (II)
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    The coin above is quite scarce. Bastien only cites 1 example of this draped type. I was very pleased to obtain this one this month.

    Officina 3 (III)
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    Officina 4 (IIII)
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    Bastien –. Bastien Suppl. II 294B (this example).
    Paul Francis Jacquier - Auction 45 (2018) - Lot 1374
    ex-Philippe Gysen Collection
    Paul Francis Jacquier Auction 21 (1998), Lot 557

    The only known example from this officina

    The type now almost drops off entirely. There is mention of unmarked coins in emission 7.

    The aureii of the type had the addition of a captive. The following coin comes from an aureus reverse die (die matched to Bastien 301).

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  5. barnaba6

    barnaba6 Well-Known Member

    Martin, I share your struggles. I also fail to see any differences between coins classified by Bastien among emissions 2 and 3. Personally I believe that the division is artificial and forced. It should be revisited by Estiot in the long awaited revision of RIC V.2 volume.

    Below are some of my MARS VICTOR examples from emissions 2 or 3:

    PROBUS BASTIEN 166 OR 179 - Coins - Ancient - Romans - Imperial and Republican (colleconline.com)

    PROBUS BASTIEN 179 OR 166 - Coins - Ancient - Romans - Imperial and Republican (colleconline.com)
     
  6. barnaba6

    barnaba6 Well-Known Member

    And here is my example of the aureus reverse die with additional captive at Mars' feet.

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  7. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I much appreciate the discussion of Probus' busts, mints, emissions, etc. Though he's a favorite of mine within RIC, Probus is just a small, non-systematic sub-collection for me. (I have a grabbed a dozen or so for their attractive busts, and/or for fitting my other sub-collections, "captives & enemies" or "from interesting collections/publications.")

    So I don't usually work through a full monograph or specialized articles. But this level of material is helpful for getting a bit of a grip on his vast and varied coinage.

    I love that captive type from the aureus die. That one seems a bit rare to hope for one, but I've got a few other "captives" types.

    The obverse on my VICTORIA GERM below isn't as impressive as some, but as a collector of Roman "captives" coinage, the reverse is fabulous (possibly the last most artistic of the two-captives-and-trophies type, begun by Julius Caesar over 325 years before, as the later versions were never this good again).
    Probus VICTORIA GERManic Captives CNG 483 858 (part).jpg
    The Claudius II version of the two-captives-and-trophy reverse (VICTORIA GOTHIC) is noticeably inferior (they're supposed to be Gothic captives, but one wonders if that isn't Parthian/Sassanian headwear, copied from Septimius or Caracalla's coins):
    CONSERVATORI-Claudius II Gothicus Antoninianus Captives.png

    I don't exactly know whether the captive on the next type (ADVENTVS PROBI AVG// XXIB; RIC 632?) is meant to specifically represent a German or other tribal enemy:
    Probus ADVENTVS PROBI AVG horseback captive CNG 483 858.jpg

    I've seen others from the same emission, I believe, at Serdica, in which there may be enough detail of headwear and clothing to indicate an Eastern (Parthian, Sassanid) captive (e.g., Rauch 71 [28 Apr 2003], 912, RIC 634).
    Not my coin: Rauch 71, 912, Probus Captive ADVENTVS PROBI AVG.jpg

    Another detail that I love about the coinage of Probus, evident in the examples above from both @maridvnvm and @barnaba6 , is how much the single collector, Philippe Gysen, was able to contribute! I made a point of tracking down and buying at least one of his coins (so far), since I found the story of his collection so impressive and fascinating.

    (I posted it above, but this one is Gysen's own photo, I believe, also used on Probvs.net: Probus ex-Philippe Gysen RIC 17, Bastien Plate Coin, ex-Jacquier.jpg )


    Paging through the ERIC II section on Probus (or any other reference) it's astonishing how many types are only known or first published from the Gysen collection. Amazing to think he accomplished that in such a short life.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Fides - holding ensigns.

    The Fides type follows much the same pattern as that illustrated for the MARS VICTOR type above. The type is manufactured by Officina 3 (III)

    Emission 2/3 - IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG
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    Emission 4 - IMP C PROBVS P F AVG
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    Emission 5 - Interesting busts illustrated above
    Emission 6 - Narrower busts, draped types become more prevalent, wider obverse legend variations
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    Also in this emission is a rare peculiarity - FIDES VICTOR. Possibly an engraving mix up between FIDES MILITVM and MARS VICTOR.

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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    PROBUS

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    RI Probus 276-282 CE Ant 21mm Rome mint captive on ground Riding Horse in ex R-Thunderbolt-Z RIC 155
     
  10. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Another reverse type that has been illustrated above - "Abundantia, standing right, emptying cornucopiae". The coin type appears in Emissions 4, 5 and 6 and predominantly produced by Officina 4 (IIII).

    The bust patterns etc. follow those for the other types outlined above.

    The standard type in Emission 4 is as follows:-

    Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– ABVNDANTIA AVG, Abundantia, standing right, emptying cornucopiae
    Minted in Lugdunum (IIII in exe) Emission 4 Officina 4. Middle to End A.D. 277
    Reference:– Cohen 1. Bastien 195. RIC 17 Bust type F

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    The type does occur from Officina 1. Bastien cites 2 examples. My example comes from the same reverse die so there is a possibility that there was only a single die used by that workshop

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    I have a couple of other quirky variations:-

    "ABVNDANTIA AVG I" - this appears to be the first known example of this peculiar legend variety

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    "ABVNTIANTIA(sic) AVG" - There are a very small number of this reverse die known with this error

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    There are couple of Emission 5 examples above. I only have two - both are Bust type G. The first has the Corinthian Helmet, the second the Attic Helmet

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    Emission 6 is remarkably difficult to get hold of with the majority or examples being misattributed versions from Emission 4

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