Copper error cent, 2.5 Memorial cent.

Well gentlemen, it seems each of the reply's I received concerning this coin is a different one and takes us in as many different directions. I'd say we have quite a mystery on our hands, which I find intriguing to say the least. Here again are the photo's I initially posted with the inclusion of two others; the first photo posted here is obviously of the obverse taken in a different light. The other coin I included is the last photo here, which is a side view of the coin, placed next to a newly minted coin; noted the difference in thickness, it's obviously thinner. I felt adding these additional photo's might aide in determining what it is we have here, and help us to reach some consensus. However, whether we do or not is not all so important, as opposed to having had the opportunity to speculate, given our varying degrees of knowledge and expertise, and the pleasure in sharing such. There is one issue I'd like each of you to consider. Look closely at the last letter "A" in the word America and note there is an indentation there that exposes the inner workings of the coin. It makes it clear this coin is primarily copper or bronze. I'm hoping someone out there can figure it out because my best guess still, is that it's transitional; suffice it to say, it's an inadequate conclusion at best as is each of our best guess's, for that is all we can possibly offer under the circumstances! Best regards!

 

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Hello and Welcome
Calling @Forensicsteam! We need help with this PMD Coin!!

 

Concentrate on how a coin coin like this could be struck by a die at the mint. Simple answer is IT CAN'T. The die wouldn't be in any condition to make that coin. Also it's not a capped die strike or resembles any known struck through capped die that I have ever seen in the last 30+ years of studying errors and the minting process.

All errors and varieties must be explained as to how the occur during the minting process. If it can't be done, then it's just one of a multitude of PMD coins. I would suggest you work on providing a reasonable explanation of how this strike could occur at the mint before going down the path that it's some new and undiscovered transitional piece.

The PMD explanations of grit blasting, acid etching, abrasion, or even heat damage to a zinc cent are much more plausible than a new , exceptional discovery. Regardless of the cause of the PMD, it's still PMD.

If you are still absolutely convinced you have something, getting it attributed by a TPG is essential. It would be wasting your money, in my opinion, but that will carry a lot more credibility than ongoing discussions on a chat board.

 

Simple, it’s damaged. A coin doesn’t look like that at the mint.

 

In op post, a question is raised. " Has there ever been a memorial cent, regardless of year that weighed 2.5 grams "? The answer is yes. The late issue '82 transitional lmc's thru 2008. They were trying to get a jump on the '83 run.
In post 13 there is mention of zinc/shield cents of 1982. Those coins do not exist. The memorial ran '59 thru 2008. In 2009, and only 2009 there were 4 reverse dies for 2009. Creating 4 varieties. In 2010 the reverse die changed again. The shield representing the reunified union was introduced.
That is a fascinating coin to see . I would keep it and name it the herschey kiss. I would add it is dated some where from 1959 and 1992 inclusive because it has the wam, and the memorial.

 

I get the reasoning behind struck thru also. For the ob. to take that strong of a punch and not affect the rev, it would seem the bottom of the planchet would be on top the rev. die in the old hammer over anvil process. That thing took a strong punch. I don't see the resultant expected damage to the reverse from what ever inflicted it.

 

Yes, I'm certainly in agreement. How could the coin have sustained such a hit, and the reverse not be affected. A mystery is undoubtedly what we have on our hands. The information you've provided is much appreciated, thank you! I'm afraid it'll take a bit of time before I know for sure what's the story with it as I intend to send it away for analysis. Rest assured that when I do find out what it's all about, I will certainly take the time to let all the members whom assisted me know what it is I learned. Again, thank you for your insight, its made a difference... happy hunting !

 

Kind of looks like struck through a capped die to me.

 

Thank you for your input, it's very much appreciated.

 

Thank you for your input, it's very much appreciated!

 

I haven't ruled that out, Usually there is some definition to the details. The only ledgible details are OD WE T, some liberty. And a heavily deformed Lincoln. I have never seen one with such a thick cap. Could be.

 

There is one other thing I would like to mention. For this coin to have sustained such a "Punch" and the reverse remain relatively intact, it would've had to have been resting within the die, or surely it too (the reverse) would've sustain a considerable amount of damage. I'm beginning to lean toward it possibly being a struck through capped die. It's the only scenario that could apply. And although it did sustain quite a punch, it should not be left out of the realm of possibilities that something significant got between it and the die. After all, it happens all the time. Maybe if we took a closer look at the reverse, it can tell us something? You have the photo's, look closely!

 

Then why is the reverse rim beveled and what caused the weakness in the letters around the periphery? How would that be caused by a capped die?

That type of damage could be consistent with the coin sitting on a flat surface and being sandblasted. Don't ignore the damage on the reverse.

 

What is the diameter of the coin? (Maybe I missed that info.)
In your side-by-side comparison image, which is the coin in question?

Points raised by many are legitimate:
-A copper coin sandblasted might produce a similar result. (And produce little to no damage to the reverse). But a copper-plated zinc cent would have the zinc core exposed after this much sandblasting.

-Pounding on a coin (a "Texas Cent") will affect the diameter even if the reverse is protected by leather.

-Weak rims can be an indicator of PSD or a weak strike. (With the poor definition on the reverse rim from the rim gutter.) But I have seen this same weakness on newer MS coins as well, which makes me think this is a copper-plated zinc planchet.

-Struck through a capped die can produce a similar look with some devices being visible but "muffled". The peaks and valleys of the obverse do seem odd but possible, IMHO.

Seems like this coin is a great candidate for an XRF test to determine the metallic content. (Please correct me if I'm missing something.)
-If the test determines this to be copper-coated zinc, then it seems like this coin is probably struck through a die cap.)
-If a copper cent, then it seems like this coin is PSD where some material has been removed.

 

Thank you for the information you've provided, it's very much appreciated! I agree that many of the points raised are legitimate, however, close inspection of the coin, renders most of those points falling short of what it is I believe I'm seeing. let me make mention that I am a novice at coin collecting and make no pretense as to the depth of my knowledge. Understand I am in no way a disagreeable person, my only aim is to determine what I've found. I believe we must be able to disagree, without being disagreeable, how else might we learn anything. Your breakdown of the points mentioned was insightful and comprehensive... kind of you to have shared so much! As for the coin, its diameter is 19.05 mm, and as far as, "Which coin is the coin in question", the four photo's shown are of the same coin. The first two photo's are of the obverse, however, under different lighting. The next photo is of its reverse, and the last photo is a side shot of the coin placed next to a newly minted coin so as to show its depth. In looking at this last photo I had hoped to show how thin the coin is. Like you, I thought sandblasting would've exposed Zinc, if present. I'd like to point out, that the coin sustained a deep hit on it's reverse, that can be viewed on top of the "A" in the word America on the reverse, which I thought would eliminate any question of the core being zinc. Please have a look. You mentioned a weak strike, and I do agree that does sound reasonable. I also agree with your assessment of submitting the coin for XRF testing. How else might we learn the true nature of this object. I do believe I've learned a thing or two having read your reply, and for that, kind Sir, I'd like to express my deepest gratitude! In time when I do receive a definitive answer to the nature of this coin, I will certainly post it here for all to learn. Happy hunting and, Best of luck! P.S. Always open to new information!

 

Interesting breakdown, you know when we look at these coins, we all try to give A+ opinions, I wouldn't toss it, not a chance until an expert can call it what it is, He will have to see it in hand. I might pay up for that coin if it was deemed authentic.

 

It will be interesting (to me anyway) to hear any additional info as you learn it.

I was trying to remember where I've seen the effect that is on the obverse and it reminded me of the impression that is left in the sand sometimes after removing a blanket that was crinkled up while sitting on it. I'm not talking about the grainy part of sand but the peaks and valleys created by a matted sheet/towel.

This led me to wonder if this effect on the OP's coin might be struck through a very large glob of grease. (Struck through a rag/towel would probably leave signs of the weaving of the fabric.)
The depression over the last A(AMERICA) is well defined without any pressure ridge I can see around the perimeter which makes me wonder if this might be struck through as well and not PSD.

 

I should have included the possibility it could be 1998, 1999, or 2000. There were some varieties of wam's in those years also.

 

Using the weight alone I would agree to the possibility. But with the condition of both sides, and no zinc showing, I am leaning toward doubtful.

 

Gentlemen, It appears our business here is concluded. I do believe we've come as far as we can given the circumstances. Let me take a moment to thank each of you for your contributions. It's been enlightening, as well as rewarding to learn there are like minded individuals afar, whom share the same enthusiasm for the hobby that I do. I've spent four years coin roll hunting, and have a great many coins with both errors and varieties I have questions about. So though it's so long for now, it's hardly good bye, as I'm sure my curiosity will eventually get the best of me, and I'll be back again seeking my fortune... one coin at a time! Till then, happy hunting!