GTG Matte proof Lincoln with problems.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by ldhair, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Many years ago, PCI gave this coin a red label problem slab.
    What grade and problem do you feel they gave on the label.
    26.jpg 27.jpg
     
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  3. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Hmm. I like it and think they got this wrong. I would be upset. That's just me though. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    PF63 Hairlines/cleaned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  5. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Rim damage at k3:30 to k4:30 on the reverse?
     
  6. TheNickelGuy

    TheNickelGuy Well-Known Member

    Looks lightly cleaned with just a little evidence of pvc damage. I guess
    PF63 Surface Damage

    edit to add
    Very nice coin!
     
  7. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    PR64.
    Edited. There seems to be an upset area in the field above the O in ONE. (on the reverse)
     
  8. ifthevamzarockin

    ifthevamzarockin Well-Known Member

  9. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Just curious. I see the fine lines on both sides. They seem to end and not go through the design details. I'm reading them as die polish lines.
     
  10. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    The lines in the obverse field don't look like die polish lines but scratches. Otherwise a nice coin.
     
  11. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    They are very light, and sometimes hard to detect when present on a "woodie"
    I see them on the jacket portrait and reverse devices.
     
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  12. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Ah ha! I see them now staring me in my face. Thank you for the education!
     
  13. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    That divot on the obverse at 3:00 looks like environmental damage.
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I wouldn't hazard a guess on the grade number they assigned, and I'm not even sure they used this designation but for this coin I'd call it altered surfaces.

    Altered surfaces is a designation that can cover a lot of different territory, including the addition of something to the surface as well as removing something from the surface. And with this coin I think it was the latter, specifically dark coloration areas on the reverse fields.

    Here, to the left of the C -

    upload_2022-3-10_12-9-4.png


    And here, under MERICA -

    upload_2022-3-10_12-10-18.png



    And yeah, doing this could also be labeled as harsh/improper cleaning but there's kind of, I don't how else to define it, a fine line between altered surfaces and harsh/improper cleaning.
     
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Some of those lines, especially the ones through LIBERTY, look like actual scratches. They might have been on the die -- but that wouldn't be my first guess.

    Those dark pits Lincoln's facing, though, look like corrosion scars. :(
     
  16. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    I gave up trying to second guess TPG. If it were mine and I wanted it properly graded, I would send it to PCGS for grading and see what you get. For that coin, I think it would be well worth it.
     
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I saw the purple the area looks smoothed. Isn't that also a characteristic of a later die stage? Those areas will also tone a slightly different shade because they are reflective, and a smoother surface?
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's a good way of describing it. That "smoothed" look is the result of altered surfaces. In effect the area is "rubbed" to try and make the darker color go away and reveal the lighter color (that we see now) underneath.

    It's been my experience that die wear (which is inevitable in later die stages) produces somewhat rough, almost bumpy at times, surfaces. Surfaces similar to those produced by a weak, or weaker strike.

    Toning is a function of luster, the more luster there is the more toning there will be, and the faster it will happen. The less luster there is the less toning there will be, and the slower it will happen. And since toning is progressive, the more of it there is and the longer it has been there, the darker it will get. And vice versa of course.
     
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  19. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

  20. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    This is a Matte Proof because?
     
  21. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I'm not very knowledgeable on Lincoln matte proofs, but I would have thought the rims on the OP's coin would have been a pretty solid clue.
     
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