My apologies. and a question.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Martha Lynn, Mar 4, 2022.

  1. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

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  3. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    Awhile back I made an unwarranted allegation at a fellow member I don't even know, and for that I apologize and ask your forgiveness. Totally undeserved. My question is what is going on with the dates on these two state quarters.
     
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  4. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    That script was supposed to be attached to the post with photos.
    A bit rusty here, eh ?
     
  5. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    First impressions of the coin is is that the reverse die for coin #2 has been very used, which would spread the image ( apparent in the date) and a more prominent ridge formation on the reverse edge of the coin, generally die deterioration damage. Dies do not have to be installed as pairs, the mint just use them until they feel they can't any longer. IMO, Jim
     
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  6. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    Thank you sir for that analysis.....martha
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Jim, in the date area,#2 is the way the coin is supposed to look.

    upload_2022-3-5_10-8-15.png

    I think what Martha is asking about is why #1 looks like this - (and you correct me if I'm mistaken Martha)

    upload_2022-3-5_10-9-3.png


    Specifically, why does the line of the circle continue on (through the date) when it's supposed to stop above the date. (and the line that continues on is perfectly concentric with the rest of the circle) And then I would ask, why does the circle line appear to be over top the left side of the 0 and yet underneath the right side of the 0, as well as under the other numerals.

    And I don't think there's any way that die deterioration/die wear could account for that. I'm thinking something happened with the #1 die but I don't know what.
     
  8. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    The ring is from a mechanical coin roller.
    It is PMD.
     
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  9. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    Yes, that was the basis of my question. With coin two, the entire area of the field where the date is located seems to be one level. On coin one, that same area seems to have two levels. The lower part of the date is on what I would call the upper level, the upper part of the date seems to be on a " lower level. Yet the numbers seem to be unaltered. As if a completely different die was used. Not a replacement for a worn die. I totally respect the input from both of you gentlemen, and thank you very much.......martha
     
  10. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    I considered the mechanical coin roller theory. But. How would the coin roller create a lowering of that area of the field and not damage the numbers themselves ? They appear unaffected to me.
     
  11. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    The numbers and letter are incuse, the coin roller damage would have to be extremely deep.
     
  12. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    Also, the designer initials appear to have some type of doubling on coin two. Scratch that. Under higher magnification there is no doubling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  13. Martha Lynn

    Martha Lynn Well-Known Member

    Pickin & grinnin you may be right. Here is a closer look for us. The area I thought was "lowered" may just be an illusion caused by the pmd of a coin roller. Here is that pic. WIN_20220305_10_36_49_Pro.jpg
     
  14. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I know I am right. LOL This happens on a lot of coins, from every denomination
     
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  15. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    Yep, another damaged coin from a coin rolling device. I guess we should be thankful they can only damage the end coins. LOL
     
  16. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    I saw this quickly, after comparing the dates. It’s one of the most prevalent damage issues in today’s coinage. I also agree #2 has die deterioration issues, as noted by @desertgem …Spark
     
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  17. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Darn mechanics anyway. Just funning!
     
  18. enamel7

    enamel7 Junior Member

    Also known as the ring of death. I agree, it's an optical illusion.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I seriously disagree !

    Now I'll grant you there's lots of coin roller damaged coins out there. But you'd have a better chance of winning 2 lotteries in a row than there would be a chance that a coin roller would just accidentally happen to be the perfect size, and then also precisely line up on both ends with an existing circle on a coin. And last but not least, how could a coin roller not leave marks anywhere else on the coin ?

    And besides that, if it was from a coin roller the mark would be on top of all 4 the numerals in the date - and it most definitely is not on top of all of them.

    There are only 2 ways that the arc of the circle being discussed could not be on top the date numerals. One would be if it occurred on the die; and the other would be if someone deliberately applied that arc.
     
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  20. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Doug the numerals and perimeter lettering are incuse. This is without doubt Coin roller damage.

    Imagine a die face that has a concentric lathe ring on a pre 99 Washington quarter. It would only show that ring up to the edge of each devise, then pick up on the other side. Because the devices are incuse on the die face.

    Starting with the America the beautiful quarter program a ring on the perimeter of the die face would show thru every device it came into contact with because the devises on the die face are raised.

    The easiest and common explanation for this type of PMD is that it is coin roller damage. Either way this didn't happen at the mint.
     
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  21. Kurisu

    Kurisu Well-Known Member

    It's a coincidence I've now seen more than a handful of times...it jut so happens that the typical ring of death circle lines up almost perfectly with that inner circle on the Tuskegee quarter.
     
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