Morgan “Price Guide” movement

Can anybody shed light on this comment: "....The CAC versions of PCGS dollars are bringing in up to 3 times more than they did a year ago."

 

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In what vein?

 

Or artery?

 

Is it true ? Have premium Morgans (w or w/o a CAC) moved that much ?

 

When people with money compete, they make the market go crazy. The Hunt Bro. did it to Silver in the seventies and early eighties.

Without questioning their motives, they were buying Silver to the point of owning 2/3rds of the physical silver available. Demand isn't people chasing the supply, it is people using money to chase the supply.

 

I'm talking about a much broader-based movement of $$$ into a niche sector (Premium Morgans) during this stay-at-home Covid Collectible Craze.

So this isn't a Hunt-induced spike, but just a much broader rise in a particular coin type.

Can anybody shed light, maybe some of you Morgan veterans ?

 

I’ve seen generic Morgans rise significantly. A common date 1881-S in MS 65 was around $100 in late 2019/early 2020. Nowadays they sell for $175-$200. CAC examples have kept the same spread (maybe done a bit better). I’m seeing low to mid $200s on recently sold 1881-S in MS 65 CAC.

Premium Morgans, which I define as PQ for the grade or nicely toned, have gone up even more than generics. I wouldn’t say it’s 3x across the board though. I’ve certainly watched some bring 2x-3x in spirited auctions. And some will go even higher. The toner Morgan market in particular keeps strengthening and appears to have added more participants.

Edit: I need to look back at some of the Morgans I purchased a year ago. While they would mostly be up, I don’t think I have any that would be 3x what I paid.

 

Thanks, great info.

Have circulated generic Morgans (subsitutes for silver) or maybe coins 1-rung above that risen nicely ? I figure that's where the masses and 1st-time buyers would be most active rather than high-3 figure coins or more expensive ones.

Gotcha, thanks !!

WHO IS buying these coins....is it newcomers to the hobby...folks who want silver exposure....people turning in gold collections to buy larger quantities of silver coins...what ? Anybody have any ideas or maybe read or hear things?

We've seen a broad upturn in U.S. Coins that GDJMSP has noted and I've seen Saints outdistance the gold move up....but some of the moves beneath the surface (like with the Morgans) have really not been that well-publicized, IMO.

Not like past spikes or bubbles, that's for sure.

I guess that's a good sign.

 

It's me, I confess. I'm late to every party and I can't resist shiny things, or even toned things. And I'm only half kidding.

 

Circulated generic Morgans have risen but I believe most of that has to do with physical silver rather than collecting. They have followed the pace of bullion (Eagles, Maples, generic rounds, etc), meaning rising premiums (they had always sold for above spot but now the percentage over spot is higher). Still, I haven't seen them rise to the degree of slabbed examples.

I've seen more people on Instagram getting into toned Morgans (many there tend to be younger and newer collectors). I believe more dealers are buying them too. Each coin show I went to over the years (from 2014 to 2021-I have not gone to any in 2022) it appears more and more tables have a toned Morgan. Dealers had good years selling online in 2020 and 2021, so they could easily be gravitating towards these Morgans when replenishing their inventory (since they see more demand for them and having a nice toner helps attract views to your case/website).

 

Agree 2,000%. There is a movement towards toned Morgans by dealers, and high grade common date Morgans. Prices have been driven up by far more stiff competition in the last 5 years, particularly. Some coins have doubled in value, as demand is way up for what I call “specialty”, but not key date Morgans. MS 67 Morgans are a definite brisk selling niche, and prices have gone up from high 3 fingers, to four figures, doubling the price. GSA CC Morgans have also had a huge appreciation, as have PL and DMPL Morgies.

 

Returning to this, here are a few examples (I'll only show the toned side; the other side is untoned on all).

1) September 2020 purchase for ~$300. I later sold this one for around what I paid. It has nice color on the reverse and I could see it doing better today. Not 3x; this is not a $900 coin; I could see $400-$450.



2) May 2021 purchase for ~$440. I sold this one for ~$25 more (big win compared to the first example ). Here the color is on the obverse (preferable for most toner collectors) and there is a CAC sticker. Some may say it can get to $800-$1,000 (2x-2.5x) but I think that is in the best case scenario (with spirited bidding). I'd say $600-$700 would be a much safer bet (just like the first example, about 1.5x).



3) June 2020 purchase for ~$600. It has a cool pattern and nice rainbow colors on the obverse. This is a fun example as I actually reacquired it after having initially traded it a few years before. It cost me close to 2.5x what I paid in 2016 (which was a favorable amount back then, by around $50-$100). I did see a dealer at a show asking $2,750 for it in 2019 (not sure if they sold it or were the one who eventually sent it to auction where it realized the $600), but that was well beyond optimistic in my view of the market at that time. Nowadays one can argue it would be an example that has gone up close to 3x ($1,800) but I couldn't confidently say it would reach that much in auction. 2x ($1,200) would be a safer guess.

 

All of these cost a few hundred dollars (or did) and that's right in the price range of all these new keyboard coin collectors flush with ca$$$h during Covid.

I posted here about the same thing with large denomination bills in lower to medium grades last year.

It would also explain why more expensive premium Morgans that only true collectors go after have maybe not risen as much, along with the bulk of Saints and other quasi-bullion substitutes.

 

I want to thank you for mentioning Greysheet and posting the link. I have been very confused as to who or what to rely on for a price guide as many are so different with their values. I know of one who looks to the past sales on ebay for a price guide and that didn't seem quite right to me. Lately I've been relying on NumisMedia (I like the easy navigation on the site) and will see how it compares to Greysheet.

 

I have noticed lately that if you send in a Morgan into a third-party grading company, 9 times out of 10, the coins going to come back graded...Cleaned! I sent two in and they both came back graded...Cleaned.

I am thinking that in order to overcome that, the coin MUST have some type of toning on it so it doesn't come back graded...Cleaned!

 

The more expensive the coin the more someone views it more as an asset. Saying only true collectors go after x is just silly. The simple fact that its more expensive limits who could actually do it

 

Yes I remember you are a big collector. I posted these a while back. Beautiful coins I think.

 

No, it simply means that lots of Morgans were cleaned over the years. You need to learn to look for signs of cleaning, before you waste your money in sending in cleaned Morgans. TPGs can see signs of cleaning through toning.