1944 P Jefferson Nickel - just a lamination, or something else?

Hey, good morning.

I'm imaging this 1944 P Jefferson Nickel, and during the process I see that it has something more interesting going on.



At first, it just looked like a regular lamination planchet error (on the obverse, right around LI of LIBERTY.) When I took a closer look, I then noticed two more things: 1) there appear to be a couple "waves" on the top of the coin and 2) there appears to be a weakly struck area on the opposite end (bottom) of the coin.

Closeup (from directly overhead) of the area in question:



Here is the lower edge - as you can see, it thins at the center:



When I took a further closer look at the coin, I see that there is a bit of metal sticking up and what I thought was a lamination is in fact some metal folded over:



This area (circled in red) is standing vertical to the face of the coin:


So, we have four things going on I'd love help with "naming" what happened to this coin.

1. What looks like a vertical burr to the left of LIBERTY
2. What looks like a folded over area over LI of LIBERTY
3. What look like a couple "waves" on the top of the coin (obverse)
4. A weakly struck, thinner area on the bottom of the coin (obverse)

Look familiar to anyone?

 

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To me it looks like delamination before the strike occurred.

 

Looks like the collar failing to me

 

I love the coin, first of all, for whatever that's worth. It has good uniformity, and is easy to look at. On your issues, as I'm seeing them, all three of those dies, for the most part, were "spent," when they struck the planchet, which, in turn, does look like it was experiencing bonding issues, going into the strike. Bumpy field in spots and the peeling ganged up on and contributed to this, if you will, mess. I don't know that identifying anything beyond that would be terribly useful. The dies and the planchet weren't in the best of shape. This is what they show for it when the came together.

 

http://www.error-ref.com/collar-damage/

 

Ive noticed Over the years lamination issues have been a major issues in coins from the early 1900's though the 1940's .
War nickels as well buffalos seem to have gas bubbles in the alloys that like vents on a volcano that allows the traped gasses to excape from the layers of medal.
I also always bring up is the war years a lot of machinist were used in other manufacturing needed for the war efforts.
Thus mint workers were not as trained , materials were rushed for completion.
And Im sure to a coin press operators.... it mattered not if the machine was spiting out washers or coins..it was about production .
I am also quite sure that quality control from both the mint and vendors whom supplied the platchets
Was little to none...again production.
The images of those bubbles just under the skin are caused by heat...just like how a clad quarter looks after heated by a torch.
Again a volcano gassing out ...the gasses traveling thoughout the medal until it breaks the surface and excapes.
Another way to explaine is water in the bottom of a deep oil frier.....as the oil heats to fry food...the water heaver than the oil sinks to the bottom...of the frier.
At 212 degrees f it turns to steam a gas that erupts though the hot oil causing the oil to explode.

 

When I look at the area I can see the field from the rim, through the the LI heading to the hairline looks like a 1/4” strip wide has peeled off but the images are minted on top of it. That’s a lamination. Above LIBERTY it appears as if the coin is cracked from the far right to the far left in the photos giving the rim the problem you see and what Rick stated.

 

It does look to have a lamination. It have been cut from the end of a sheet.
What is the weight of said coin?

 

At first glance, I thought, "PMD" but you laid out your observations so well and photographed them, that I changed my mine right away. I agree that it is a lamination and I think your edge photo shows that by the apparent "bubbles," but in looking at your last photo, of the circled area, I'm thinking that may have just been damage after the fact. Just my thoughts.
Thanks for the well thought out and worded post and great photos.

 

The weight of said coin is 4.9 grams.

Just getting home, I'm going to take a new image (or two) and be back shortly.

 

Okay - I'm back!

Thanks to all who have joined in the discussion - I really appreciate all of your comments!

Here are two more closeups of the LI area in question. I honestly think we have two things happening here - one, part of it is folded over metal (burr) - over the L - and part of it is a lamination crack - over the I.

Check out my images and tell me if you agree.

 

The vertical scratches on the edge are somewhat present on the non-affected areas of this coin, but noticeably stronger on the two affected areas (top and bottom of the obverse.)

I am still interested to hear what people think about the "waves" on the top. Mostly just trying to explain it to my brain in a way it will understand.

 

Okay, two last photos.

First, the LIBERTY side, looking straight on at the edge (you can see the little square bit sticking up here)



Second, the LIBERTY side, looking down at it on an angle:

 

Im still on my 1st thoughts gas bubbles causing the lamination issues.
All those areas are the vents caused by the heated gas excaping.

 

That above Tom head is a gas bubble......see how it raised

 

Was thinking thin planchet with the weight question. Laminations are more likely to be present on end of sheet planchets. Lamination can produce a wave like appearance at the surface of the coin after years of setting. It is always unknown what could be trapped inside the layers of the lamination that begin to move with repeated temperature changes. I think the cut and shear marks on the edge signal a low pressure strike that did not push the metal all the way out to the collar die to erase those lines. The 45° edges are part of the proto rim from the upsetting mill.
It is quite possible the the edge of the lamination got folded over in the upset mill or even while entering the coining chamber. But all said and done, it is still a
Lamination error. You could add weak or incomplete strike pressure to the Lam.

 

I do like Paddy54 line of thought.
US at war. Workers displaced everywhere. And the mint has to make coins from an alloy mix they have never used before.

 

Between the planchet, collar and war time allies . It's like The Perfect Storm, we know how that ended up ...