No Greater Friend, No Worse enemy

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by nerosmyfavorite68, Feb 20, 2022.

  1. nerosmyfavorite68

    nerosmyfavorite68 Well-Known Member

    Lucius Cornelius Sulla has interested me since my college days, and while AE of Nero are my favorite coins, L.C. Sulla is my favorite Roman; favorite as in most fascinating.
    He associated with a colorful and diverse crowd, had a distinguished military career, attempted to right a decaying republic, was the bain of radicals, retired voluntarily at the top of his game and allegedly had one of the coolest tomb epitaphs (the thread title).
    Shamefully, I have no portrait Denarius of Sulla (Sydenham 908). They rarely come up on vcoins, and when they do, they tend to be fourrees. I don't do auctions.
    This fellow https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Sulla_Glyptothek_Munich_309.jpg has been attributed as Sulla in the past, but like the Wiki caption says, if one adds hair to the older 'Marius' bust, it's the same guy. Young Marius, if that is he, was certainly a ferocious-looking individual.
    History is a funny thing; Diocletian, for example, has a mostly positive reputation, but his economic reforms were a huge bust and he he ushered in a North Korean-style state. I'm sure he also probably executed more people than did Sulla.
    Although I admire the Divine Augustus, are there any numbers of the proscriptions of 43 BC? I'm sure they were comparable to Sulla's.
    Whatever one may think of Sulla, weak and ephemeral certainly aren't words to describe him.

    As an aside, what numismatic issues are being referenced in Wikipedia's Sack of Athens section?,
    "On arrival, Sulla threw up siegeworks encompassing not only Athens, but also the port of Piraeus. At the time, Archelaus had command of the sea, so Sulla sent Lucullus to raise a fleet from the remaining Roman allies in the eastern Mediterranean. His first objective was Piraeus, as Athens could not be resupplied without it. Huge earthworks were raised, isolating Athens and its port from the landside. Sulla needed wood, so he cut down everything, including the sacred groves of Greece, up to 100 miles from Athens. When more money was needed, he took from temples and sibyls alike. The currency minted from this treasure was to remain in circulation for centuries and was prized for its quality."
     
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Thanks for the background info. I hadn't realized that Sulla besieged Athens.
     
  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    SULLA

    upload_2022-2-20_13-42-23.png
    Athens
    AE19
    c 87-86 BCE
    Time of SULLA - Sack of Athens 86 BCE
    Athena
    Zeus
    Sear Grk 2567 R1
    "This type is associated with the precious-metal issues in the name of King Mithradates of Pontus (see no.2552)"



    upload_2022-2-20_13-50-29.png
    Roman Republic
    Manlius Torquatus L. Corn Sulla
    82 BCE
    AR Denarius 17mm 3.7g
    Military mint w Sulla.
    Roma -
    Sulla triumphal quadriga vict wreath
    Cr 367-3 Syd 759 Sear 286
     
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  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    he was an interesting character, to say the least..i wanted a coin of his since i 1st started collecting coins....at present i have 2 :) IMG_0654.JPG IMG_0655.JPG Torquatus/Sulla denarii, traveling mint, 82BC
     
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  6. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    According to Sueton [27.1], at first, Augustus was against the proscriptions, but then he proceeded even stricter than his other two triumvirs: 300 Senators and 2000 Equites. Sulla's proscriptions were, according to Valerius Maximus [9, 2, 1], 4700 Roman citizens
     
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  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    L CORNELIUS SULLA.jpg
    L CORNELIUS SULLA & L MALIUS ROMAN REPUBLIC; GENS CORNELIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Helmeted head of Roma right, L MANLI PROQ
    REVERSE: Triumphator in quadriga right, crowned by Victory, L SVLLA IMP in ex.
    Rome 82 BC
    3.9g, 17mm
    Cr367/5; Cornelia39
     
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  8. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

  9. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

  10. The Meat man

    The Meat man Supporter! Supporter

    Very interesting history, thanks @nerosmyfavorite68 !
     
  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

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  12. nerosmyfavorite68

    nerosmyfavorite68 Well-Known Member

    I like the graphic, Ryro :woot::D:joyful: but I think the bust is possibly of younger Marius.
     
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  13. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Here's my favorite coin of Sulla - a portrait coin still eludes me....
    Sulla Cornelia.jpg
     
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  14. nerosmyfavorite68

    nerosmyfavorite68 Well-Known Member

    It seems like the people with Rufus in their names made some of the coolest coins during the late republic (the portrait issue, others).
     
  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    SULLA

    SULLA's UNCLE
    upload_2022-2-21_20-21-51.png

    RR
    P. Cornelius Sulla, 151 BCE
    AR denarius
    Rome mint
    Obv: Head of Roma to right, wearing winged helmet ornamented with griffin's head; X behind
    Rev: Victory, naked to the hips, driving galloping biga to right, holding reins in left hand and whip in right; P•SVLA below, ROMA in exergue
    Ref: Crawford 205/1 Sear 84
    SULLA's Uncle


    SULLA DIED 79BCE (and it is a TRIGA!)

    upload_2022-2-21_20-18-22.png
    RR Naevius Balbus 79 BCE AR Den Venus SC TRIGA Sulla S 309 Cr 382-1


    SULLA's SON
    upload_2022-2-21_20-20-54.png
    RR Faustus Cornelius Sulla 56 BCE AR Den Venus Signet Pompey S 386 Cr426-3
     
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  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

     
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  17. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I think they're probably referring to these tetradrachms:
    Screen Shot 2022-02-22 at 1.53.04 PM.jpg

    ^Not my coin! Although I do have a slightly earlier issue, of Aristion, who was the tyrant allied with Mithridates, and who was in control of the city when Sulla put it under siege. My coin was probably issued not long before the siege (see the Mithridatid symbol, Pegasos):
    9003.201.18_1.jpg
    (Obverse die match to Thompson 980a)

    These are a wee bit easier to come by than the Sulla issues but are still closely connected to the event.

    My Sulla denarius:
    sulla.jpg

    And a 54 BC issue of Q. Pompeius Rufus referring to Sulla, who was his grandfather (via Cornelia Sulla):
    pompeius rufus.jpg
     
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  18. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I've got one of those "Sack of Athens" Tetradrachms being referred to at the end there. I haven't checked the original sources or anything, but I often see Plutarch cited as having written that these were called "Lucullans" (Λευκόλλεα I think). Here's a quote from CNG 456, 139 (acsearch record):
    Plutarch (Lucullus II.2), describes how Sulla's proquaestor L. Licinius Lucullus was put in charge of coinage on this expedition, and that he did such an fine job that the coins he made came to be named after him: "...it was called 'Lucullan' after him, and circulated very widely because the needs of the soldiers during the war caused it to be exchanged quickly." An inscription from Delphi concerning the sale of slaves echoes Plutarch: "...they paid for these in one sum of a hundred and fifty 'flats' of Lucullus..."

    My tetradrachm (different CNG sale, their photo). It was actually the final lot before part II of BCD's anonymous collection Athenian bronze, so I jokingly refer to it as "Ex-BCD-Adjacent":
    Sulla Tetradrachm ex-CNG 115.jpg

    Rounding out my Sullan lineup, a Venus & Cupid / Two Trophies denarius (a partial inspiration for Ceasar's Venus & Cupid / Trophies & Two Captives?):
    Sulla AR Denarius Ex-Inasta (Photo) Auction 84 Lot 114 (30 Oct 19).jpg

    Finally, an enemy of Sulla: C. Marcius Censorius was among the “last men standing” in Sulla's Civil War, defeated and captured at the decisive Battle of the Colline Gate (Kalends of Nov. 82). Sulla had his severed head sent to what remained of the Marian army, which promptly deserted Marius the Younger, who then promptly committed suicide.

    Below I've my own photo beneath a second photo I recently found of my coin in the Schaefer Binders on ANS/RRDP (though I'm not yet sure what "Long Island NOV 10" is):
    Censorinus Denarius 346-2b Schaefer RRDP ANS (diptych).png
     
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