A Flavian Protocontorniate?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Feb 3, 2022.

?

Is this coin a protocontorniate?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I bought this As of Titus very cheap. I suspect that the seller assumed it was a poor misshapen example. I suspect it's a 'protocontorniate'.


    T238P.png
    Titus Protocontorniate
    Æ As, 10.53g
    Rome mint, 80-81 AD
    Obv: IMP T CAES VESP AVG P M TR P COS VIII; Head of Titus, laureate, bearded, l.
    Rev: S C in field; Spes stg. l., with flower
    RIC 238 (C). BMC 214. BNC 221.
    Acquired from eBay, January 2021.

    This common as of Titus may have served another life centuries later functioning as a protocontorniate. Nathan T. Elkins describes them as such: 'A protocontorniate is a normal, large-module bronze coin, typically a sestertius, which at some point was later altered by hammering the edges of the coin so that it could serve some other use. A common assumption is that protocontorniates functioned as game counters since the rim created through hammering could protect the designs. Andreas Alföldi believed
    protocontorniates to be forerunners of the contorniates of the fourth and
    fifth centuries. He argued that protocontorniates were New Year’s gifts and
    that the older coins were actually hammered in the fourth century before the
    contorniates proper came into being.' Although this coin is not a sestertius, I believe it to be one of these so called 'game counters'. The edges appear to have been hammered in antiquity because of their similar patina to the coin's flat surfaces.

    For the priced a nice dinner out on the town I think I've acquired a nifty numismatic oddity.

    Please feel free to share your coin oddities!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
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  3. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    no idear, never heard of a protocontorniate , looks the same as this Sicilian, a folded rim:

    P1210746 (2).JPG P1210766.JPG
     
  4. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    David Atherton, DonnaML and Ryro like this.
  6. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Ps, I forgot to add a few oddities per your request:
    I think this possible weight/ gaming piece may have been an empress. I believe the obv of sideways and that I faintly see DIVA at about the o'clock.
    2117742_1629211049.l-removebg-preview.png

    Bought for two euros as a snack due to the strange pie shaped countermark.
    2367398_1637161173.l-removebg-preview.png

    Another snack. Presumably some type of votive offering. I bought it thinking it was a hippo head. The more I look at it in hand the less sure I am.
    2368147_1637161708.l-removebg-preview.png

    And lastly, one purchased from a favorite metal detecting buddy in France. Probably more modern, but a fun decoration.
    Screenshot_20220121-130905_PicCollage-removebg-preview.png
     
    ambr0zie, Carl Wilmont, Limes and 8 others like this.
  7. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    My Avatar definitely looks as if it was cut down for some reason, probably for jewelry(?).

    Anonymous, Time of Basil II & Constantine VIII. Circa AD 1020-1028. Æ Follis (21x25mm, 10.00g, 6h). Constantinople mint, Class 3. Obv: Nimbate bust of Christ facing, holding book of Gospels; five pellets in nimbus. Rev: +IhSЧS / XRISTЧS / bASILЄЧ / bASILЄ in four lines across field; ornament above and below. Ref: DOC A2.40; SB 1818. Good Fine, nice patina, stuck on a highly oblong adjusted flan.
    Byz_Anon_AEFollis_SB1818.jpg
     
  8. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Very nice David. I'd take that over a dinner out all day long.

    I sold this Nero As proto-contorniate years ago. It was supposed to be published by the new owner, but never heard anything about it since... Such curiosities.

    nero_contorniate.jpg

    NERO CAESAR AVG GERM IMP
    Laureate head right

    PACE P R VBIQ PARTA IANVM CLVSIT SC
    Temple of Janus with doors closed

    Rome 65 AD

    9.22g

    Edges hammered in antiquity (1st-3rd century) to create a "proto-contorniate"
     
  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Nice bargain, and very interesting! Overall I'd bet slightly against it being a proto-contorniate, given that it's not a sestertius, and the edge-hammering is considerably cruder than what is normally seen on these. But it may have been hammered to place in some sort of frame, which is one idea for what's going on with the proto-contorniates. So, maybe a proto-proto-contorniate? :D

    My Commodus:
    commodus protocontorniate.jpg
     
  10. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    I'm wondering if my Verus sestertius could be a protocontorniate
    upload_2022-2-5_16-46-11.png

    upload_2022-2-5_16-46-38.png
     
  11. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    Great coin and story. I was not aware of this kind of reuse of a large bronze. I have seen some that were retarrifed.
    Monete Barbariche.Vandali V tintine90.jpg
    Half a RR As to 5 ???

    I have a few that were repurposed as weights.
    Trajan Leu 5.24.21.jpg
    Trajan
    four coin weights.jpg
    LRB

    I saw some of these weights and bought a few. I did a bit of looking around and found a few archaeological reports that had reused coins as scale weights. The first pic I have listed as: Anglo-Saxon Cemetery at Sarr.
    Anglo-Saxon Cemetery at Sarr.png
    You can read more at Kent Archaeological Society's Archaeological Collection - Introduction (kentarchaeology.org.uk)
    If you click on the Sarr link and to #26 they show a balance and repurposed coins as weights.
    Anglo-Saxon Cemetery at Sarr no 26.jpg
     
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