Check out this ridiculous $400 Tooled coin/A fool and his money...

Sitting here watching Tauler & fau and saw this laughable toolie starting at 50 euros. Smoothed, doodled on (tooled), shows signs of BD (which may be why they tooled it) and who knows if it ever even was ancient? IMHO it shouldn't have sold for more than 20 as a silly gag coin:

I think this Goddard comic gives a better likeness of everyone's favorite wayward emperor:


And then this happens; the bidding starts and once all is said and done somebody drops 280 euros on it (after buyer fees, but before their expensive shipping, that's about $385)?! That means there were two dopes silly enough to think it was worth that much!?!? Who knows how high the winner was willing to go (or should I say, how low)?

(Almost XF Of course the XF is for: extremely fake/foolish/funny money)


I can only hope that they read the listing and understand what a "Tooled" coin is. But then again, if they did and do then what does it say about our fellow ancient collectors? I choose to believe this is a noob who saw detail and thought it actually looked good without understanding that it may as well be a hobo nickel.

 

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Interesting coin. I watch the T&F auctions, but have not bought from them for a while. They have interesting items. Reading descriptions is important. This coin was advertised as "Tooled". It is above my pay grade to determine what someone should bid on a coin.
How something old should look is a personal opinion. I was advised to clean and then repatinate my Byzantine Princess steelyard weight (right). I politely declined. I suspect the Athena weight was cleaned and repatinated.

 

Those weights are cool!

 

I like those weights, especially the Byzantine.

Yes, it is a good thing that it was not cleaned since the patina and earth deposits really add to its character. I would not touch, unless there is bronze disease setting in, which is not the case with this weight.

 

I recall seeing your Byzantine Empress but not that AWESOME Athen. Any idea from around what time period she is from?

 

I'd guess 5th to 8th century AD.
Dating these weights is a guess unless there is find data. Most of the weights I have seen do not have that. The best book I have is: AEQUIPOMDIA by Norbert Franken. It is in German. I gave google translate a workout with that book.

Byzantine / Late Roman Athena Steelyard Weight, bronze shell with lead filling, 5th - 8th century AD*.
12.6 pounds
9-1/2 " tall, including 1" loop at top of weight
4-1/2 " wide at shoulders
3-1/2 " deep from Aegis to back
base dimensions are 4.5 X 3.5 ".
​

My write-up is here:
Denarius: Athena Steelyard Weight from Paul Bessey Collection (rrdenarius.blogspot.com)
A good website for these scales:
Ancient Steelyards | Edition Topoi (edition-topoi.org)

 

It seems a fair question: Are we wronging a coin seller/auction when we complain they sell tooled coins that have been labeled as 'Tooled'? In a perfect world, I could see a dealer refusing to handle such a coin --- period. In a slightly less perfect world, we might see the coin labeled as "One of the worst tooling job we have ever seen but a worthy addition to a specialized 'Black Museum' collection". As it is, today, we are lucky they did not say 'Lightly Smoothed'.

Anyone admit to rooting for the Bronze Disease?

 

Wonderful observations, as always. Thanks Doug
I would like to say that I'm not trying to, nor would I as they are one of my favorites, wrong Tauler & Fau. I don't want it to seem that I'm lampooning the auction house so much as the market for ancients today. And frankly this bizzaro world we are living in:

And even more specifically, what world are people living in that it's OK to pay $400 on a tooled coin?
You've, rightly, mentioned that nobody should pay more than, I believe it was, half for a fourée.
In the new ancient world of collecting copycats and forgers what percent is a toolie?

Speaking of black cabinets (shudders thinking of Museums full) I 1000% appreciate @mikenoodle and Aaron Berk for not only being so transparent about what they do with fakes we even get to see top level fakes to help adjust our eyes

 

I think the auction house should not have graded the coin XF. I don't think such a grade is applicable to a coin that is so badly tooled.

 

I know that Baldwin's also keeps records of fake coins and they also take them off the market. I think that is probably what all serious auction houses/dealers do.

Lanz, on the other hand, has now gone completely off the rails by selling declared forgeries:

LANZ LYDIA KROISOS HALF STATER LION BULL SARDES MODERN FORGERY SILVER ^HL2086 | eBay

LANZ ITALY SICILY MESSINA FEDERICO II TARI´ EAGLE GOLD MODERN FORGERY ^SAL79 | eBay

LANZ ITALY SICILY MESSINA FEDERICO II MULTIPLO TARI´ GOLD MODERN FORGERY ^SAL76 | eBay

etc...

I don't understand who would buy these forgeries. I fear that these are people who hope to resell them as genuine.

 

Caught me.

 

I think my Hadrian is one the worst tooling jobs:

 

I kind of hope that this never was a Hadrian sestertius, but that somebody just took any old brass disk and engraved a sestertius on it.

 

In a perfect world, a dealer would refuse to handle such an item, but having been “on the other side of the table,” I can tell you that sometimes you have to take material you don’t like to get pieces you do like. Assuming that it was genuine, my approach was to sell the less desirable stuff to other dealers and keep it away from my regular customers.

As a dealer, I advised my customers that there might be a stronger buyer out there when they offered me something I didn’t like. One good customer offered me a U.S. certified commemorative half dollar that was black as coal in the holder. I told him that I could only pay him a low ball price. He took it anyway, and I sold the piece to another dealer for a small mark-up.

 

What'd that set you back, $400?

 

I'm pretty sure it once was an original sestertius

$25 bought on a local dutch site

 

I kinda wish I'd bought this awesome toolie:

 

About two years ago I had just purchased a denarius of L Thorius Balbus(Juno Sospita/Bull) at NYINC and while sharing the purchase over dinner, a fellow Cointalker pointed out that "the key detail for a quality example of this type is whether or not you can tell that the bovine is a bull. Because sometimes cows have horns too..."

We agreed my coin was good because you could tell it was a bull. This coin is likewise good quality for the type.

 

Despite being bent, mine sure is a "good quality" coin as well. Except mine wasn't enhanced by a modern tooler of tools: