I'm having a difficult time with this one

@dougsmit Thanks for the feedback. I think I am finished with this Hadrian. We got a lot of talk out of it. I enjoyed the talk and the coin.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You're welcome.

Question 1 : What is your definition of "smoothed"?
Question 2 : What do you mean by "protected"? Clear wax? Colored wax?
Question 3 : Will the coin be re-patinated with an artificial patina?
Question 4 : Has the coin already been re-patinated with an artificial patina?

The word "smoothed" seems to have different definitions, among ancient coin collectors.
1. For some collectors, "smoothed" seems to mean, that the base metal was not altered, only the patina was altered, and the coin was not re-patinated with artificial patina. Uneven parts of the patina have been rendered more even.
2. For some collectors, "smoothed" seems to mean, that the base metal was altered, in order to make the surface of the coin more even. When this happens, often the coin is re-patinated with artificial patina, in order to cover the exposed base metal.
3. For some collectors, "smoothed" could mean, that the person who worked on the coin, was trying not to alter the base metal. However, in the process of trying to render the patina more even, some parts of the base metal were accidentally or intentionally exposed, and the base metal may or may not have been altered. When that happens, the person may leave the coin alone, or the person may re-patinate the coin with an artificial patina, to cover the exposed base metal.

Whether an ancient coin collector, will buy a "smoothed" coin, depends on the definition of "smoothed". For some ancient coin collectors, they will not buy a "smoothed" coin, for any of the above definitions.

If I'm thinking about buying a coin, or if I'm cleaning a coin, I don't mind, if dirt is removed from a coin. I also don't mind, if chunks of debris are removed from a coin. Also, I guess I don't mind, if a top layer of patina is removed, to expose an underlying layer of different colored patina. For example, if an ancient coin has a layer of black patina, and some areas of brown patina on top of the black patina, then I guess I don't mind, if the brown patina is removed, to expose the underlying black patina, as long as none of the black patina is removed. But, I guess I wouldn't want any of the black patina to be removed.

 

P.S. : For your coin, looking at what it originally looked like, it seems like a difficult decision. It seemed to have only 1 layer of very thick, black patina, which hid almost all of the devices. What would a professional do, in such a situation? I don't know.
Perhaps a professional would strip the coin bare, in order to reveal the devices. I don't know.

 

Great questions, even if I am only asking them of myself.

Smoothed - I try not to get as far as the patina and only smooth the residual crud from 2000 years. But I will get to the patina some on some coins. I guess I have to determine what is patina and what is not. I fall somewhat in answer 1. The patina varies considerably from coin to coin, and I try to be aware of it.

This one was 100% silvered and all I could do was remove the dirt and stop before I got to the silver. And the next had very little patina and I could only remove the loose dirt. I don't add any artificial stuff and try not to tool.




Protected - I gently remove any remaining dust with canned air or rinse. Then I apply Ren Wax. There is no artificial patina or coloring added.

Again, the comments and questions are great and very helpful. Thanks.

 

Nice job on the LRB's.

I said the letters looked tooled on the Hadrian because they don't look like the original letters from the era. Much too chunky and clumsy looking. It's a fine line. As mentioned, how do you know when to stop? That's especially true if you don't know what it is you're cleaning. Patience is the key, which is why I stopped cleaning crusty coins years ago. I will still remove encrustations from time to time.

 

The first thing I do is try to get a rough id of the coin. Then I find a photo and the attributes in one of the resources. Most times I use Wildwinds. I print the reference photo in a large size and use it as a guide. Then just be careful and work at it. When it looks like I won't be able to get any more detail - I stop. Having the guide right there is very important.

 

The more I think about it, I think that, the only way to know, when to stop, is when you reach something that is a different color, than what you are removing.
For example, if you remove brown dirt from a bronze coin, then the time to stop, is when you reach the underlying black or green patina.
If you remove black tone from a silver coin, then the time to stop, is when you reach the underlying silver metal.
If you remove a layer of brown patina, then the time to stop, is when you reach a layer of different colored patina (for example, the underlying black or blue patina).
But, if you are removing some of the patina of one color (for example black), but leaving some of the patina of that color (for example black), then you really don't know, whether you are revealing the true edges and details of the underlying devices, or if you are creating edges and details which are unrelated to the underlying devices.
For example, the letters of the OP coin, as @Jay GT4 mentioned. If you are removing some of the black patina, but leaving some of the black patina, then it seems like, there is no way to know, if the letters that you have carved out of the patina, are related to the true shapes of the underlying letters of the metal.
Perhaps, in the case of the OP coin, it would be better, to strip off all of the black/blue patina, resulting in a red, bare metal coin. Then, the true shapes and details of the devices would be revealed.
Or, perhaps it would have been better, to just leave the OP coin alone, with the original thick blue/black patina, even though the devices were almost completely invisible.

 

There are many factors to consider. A very important one is the metallurgy of the base metal. Some of the materials were very porous did not hold up well. The patina or the buildup of dirt might be the only thing holding the "details" in place. Some coins need to be left alone or they fall apart. Sometimes just soaking the coins will cause detail to release. Each one is its own story. Here are two examples of how patina can fool us.

On the first one the patina is the detail. Once I got the dirt off, I had to stop. On the second one the patina had come off too easy while it was soaking, and I had to stop.

Each coin is different. I try to judge that and come up with something nice for my collection. Both are very nice btw.

 

A professional would likely throw it back into the pile...

 

That's sort of why I like them. My enjoyment is seeing if I can identify them.