Word to the wise about your coin collection.

I guess I can't argue with that. But, I can live with that.

 

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My high grade gems already have enough problems that I won’t worry



Luckily I can spot whizzed and improperly cleaned coins. Altered color is still something I am working on.

 

Nothing a little Blue Ribbon can't "fix".

 

What I wonder is any amount of cleaning considered acceptable/borderline for a straight grade? I’d submitted a 1909 VDB and IMO it had a shot at MS 66 RD. It came back as MS details questionable color Brown. I brought it to the Chicago ANA and Rick Snow took a look at it for me. He indicated he didn’t see what they saw. Nothing wrong with it…but he thought 65. I cracked and sent it back in. It graded MS 65 RD. Also awhile back my nephew asked me to send in a coin for him. It had a funky looking spot on it. He scrubbed it with a Magic Eraser. I told him he ruined it, and said it would not be graded. It came back PR64. Made me look stupid, but the damage was visible to the naked eye.

 

The post above is why I don't allow discussion about TPGS MISTAKES in class! It would take up the entire seminar time. While some of these may be hearsay, we all have a good story or ten to tell.

Commercial grading allows this. AU one day MS the next. "Details" one time straight grade the next. No one likes it but that is why strict, critical grading is best. Then IMHO, seventy-five percent of these stories/gross mistakes would not happen.

In my experience, no one can be a consistent grader. However, some can be better than others. I think that is what most professional graders strive for but none are even close to perfect.

If there was a way to have a coin examined and discussed by five of the best in the business until a 100% consensus was reached about the coin's condition of preservation from the minute it was struck WITHOUT ANY regard to it's rarity, strike, eye-appeal, or value - that would be a perfectly graded coin! Then they could add there opinion of its value.

Can you imagine those guys grading a ten coin submission containing a 1959 BU Roosevelt dime, BU 1904 cent, MS 1880-S $1, etc. There would be a ten year backlog of coins at the service but the grades would be perfect 99.9% of the time. ONLY THE COINS VALUE would fluctuate.

 

But that's part of the problem with our current system. The "market" value of a coin is highly dependent on the TPG's opinion; which may not be the same from one day to the next or one grader to the next. Unless the coin is a rarity, the most expert eyes will not evaluate the said coin. If the coin is cracked out and resubmitted it's probably a good chance that the same eyes won't see the coin. It's an imperfect process but the market highly depends on an accurate evaluation. I'm not blaming the TPGs because the process involves imperfect human beings giving subjective opinions (not totally since their is some skill involved based on knowledge and experience). That said, I can agree on most of the grades my coins have received and throughout the process I have learned from it. When I get a details grade on a coin I've submitted, I don't get angry but take a closer look at what was wrong with it. In most instances I agree with the grade.

 

A market-oriented grading system was popularized by the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS). It was founded by seven coin dealers in early 1986 with the claim that it would provide “THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION TO THE GRADING PROBLEM!” [the caps and exclamation point are theirs] and “the most important market development in numismatic history.” That’s a lot of hype to live up to. Coins would be graded “by an industry-accepted grading standard.” The coin and its grade would be encapsulated in plastic, so the grade would stay with the coin forever. PCGS’ early success led to the establishment of many other TPGs, of which Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) has been the most successful.

What was that “industry-accepted” standard? Initially, they didn’t say, but PCGS introduced what they called “precision grading,” in which the coin would be graded by three independent experts, each capable of accurately grading a coin 85% of the time. They claimed that this would give “in the neighborhood of 99%” accuracy. However, statistically speaking, three independent opinions, each with 85% accuracy should agree on the correct grade only about 60% of the time (0.85 x 0.85 x 0.85 = 0.614). Therefore, if the three came to 99% agreement, they must not have been working independently. Apparently realizing this, PCGS called their grade “AN EXPERT CONSENSUS GRADE!” [again, their caps and exclamation point].

From an article I wrote for Penny-Wise in 2018.

 

A little humor: I don't whiz in your toilet so don't whiz on my coin K. I agree with @Insider. Enjoyed the post, thanks to all.

 

Ok, I'll remember that the next time I clean my toilet.

 

The only experience that I had with a TPG. This happened about 10 years ago, so bear with me. I inherited my fathers coin collection and caught the bug for collecting coins. My first purchases was a local one man coin store/office. He had a couple of RAW Liberty Head gold coins...a eagle and a double eagle. I had read a magazine before I bought them, that said it was best to have coins graded. The dealer was getting ready to go to a show and said he could get them graded faster at the show and he would not charge me. On the Bill of Sale, it was stated "in his opinion" they would be graded MS 61. The Eagle was graded MS61, the double eagle came back as a "Detailed" coin. He told me he would buy them back, but I decided that I should keep it as a lesson learned.
After that experience, I will buy a graded coin, but I do not buy RAW coins. I also buy coins or whatever from the Mint. Most of the time, I get what I want. I got burned on the 2021 Morgans and Peace. I did get the Morgan D and S, but no Peace. I did pay an online dealer for the Peace. It is RAW, but it looks nice.
However, I bet most of you have bought RAW coins from time to time as well as buying from the Mint.
My dos centavos. Que le Vaya con Dios.

 

A proof can have hairlines that would detail a business strike and still be straight graded, just at a lower grade.

 

I thought the TPGS claimed to grade the coin BASED ON what its commercial value is.

IMO this is incorrect. The establishment of PCGS and NGC DROVE OUT practically all of the grading services that were around before 1986. Trying to establishing another viable grading service after 1986 would be stupid!

 

Was thinking the same thing. Or do I have to walk around with a microscope

 

I’ll stick with only water

 

Nice heart felt opinion. Well said

 

I don't totally agree with that statement. I'll use CAC as an example. They get around not assigning a grade but in a sense they do with their stickers. If they wanted to reslab coins and assign a grade I'm sure they'd compete with PCGS and NGC.