NON US sanctioned authentic money -- The Liberty Dollar

I am wondering if anyone here has heard of this, and what they are thinking on it...

I did a search on the internet under the heading "First american dollar". (I was looking for a nice picture for a new avatar.) What i found as the first hit was this:
http://www.libertydollar.org/

Every $10 in liberty dollars are redeemable for 1 ASE (with the silver content apparently making up the $10)

I thought the US govt had a law in place that authorized itself as the only legitimate authorizing agent for money to be used within its borders.

After doing a search on google for "Liberty Dollar" i found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar

any thoughts????

 

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I like the idea strictly from a economic basis. I ordered the info kit and 2 coins. I will not be puting much of my money into it, but I love the idea.

 

Nope, the only law along these lines are in the Constitution which forbids the states (But not businesses or private citizens) from creating money. And an 1864 law that forbids the issuance of private money or tokens with denominations of less than one dollar. As long as it is more than one dollar it is perfectly legal.

What I find amusing is that many coin collectors will criticize the Liberty dollars because the intrinsic value backing them is less than the face value, but then have no problem using and accepting Federal Reserve notes that have an intrinsic value of ZERO.

The Liberty dollar idea is not a new one. A similar idea was promoted in Colorado Springs back in 1900. W know them today as Lesher Referendum dollars and today they ae eagerly collected and worth thousands of dollars.

For other private and community based currency systems you might try a google search for private currencies, or community currencies. If those don't work try "Ithica hours".

Here is one article to get you started http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_9_19/ai_100111691

 

I don't think the liberty dollar is perfect, but I don't trust FRNs in the long run

 

i found 'hour' based currency while doing a little research on the Liberty Dollars. I find the idea interesting, but doubt its long term viability since the only backing it has is whats written by a 'business'. Sure they 'say' 1 Liberty Dollar (LD) is backed by 1/10th an ounce of silver, so $10(LDs) equal a 1 ounce silver coin. Example - the printers of the LD over the years have 1 billion LDs in circulation. The price of silver shoots up to $50 an ounce again for some unscroupulous reason. Everyone who owns the LDs rush to cash them in for the 1 ounce silver coin.

In that scenario, there is NO governing authority that can provide assurance that the backing will hold. So in the end - its potential to be 'fiat' money, as is FRN's, is very high.

 

Isnt this NORFED??

 

It's basically a silver round with a marketing gimmick.

 

yes... a company

 

Same thing happened with government currency in 1964. The government had issued many more silver certificates than they actually had silver backing on hand. Why? Because they never dreamed had there would be a run on the currency to redeem the notes for silver. This is standard procedure in all financial institutions. Many people think he local back has all that money that has been deposited sitting in the vault. Actually they only have about 3% or less of their assets on hand to satify demand deposits. They are gambling that they will never have more than 3% of their assets requested for payout on any given day. Banks that used to issue their own currency back in the 19th century used to do the same thing Take in $1000, and issue $1500 in banknotes because you probably won't have to redeem them all at the same time.

But anyway the US govenment got caught short so they simply changed the law so that they no longer had to edeem the notes with silver like they were supposed to, but could just redeem them with other paper.

 

Fractional Reserve Banking ^, could get us into trouble one day. Example for some reason people overnight lose faith in banks and take out a ton of money....

 

There is no money, only Federal Reserve notes. The quantity is unlimited, there are legal tender laws saying you must accept them, and therefore there can't really be a run on the bank regardless of reserves.

I belive either the Federal Reserve Act or the US Code states that Federal Reserve Notes must be redeemable in "lawful money." Try going into a bank, give them a Federal Reserve Note, and tell them you want to exchange it for "lawful money" as required by law. See what happens.

 

Is there a link to verify either or both of these statements? I'd be curious to look at the context, who passed the law, and dig into the background of it.

As far as I know, they still print each note with "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". I would have thought a legal change would have required a design change too.

 

TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 5103 Prev | Next

§ 5103. Legal tender


Release date: 2005-10-11

"United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts. "

I'll have to look more closely at the code, but superficially this would indicate that the legal tender status of FRNs is still in effect. It clearly indicates "all debts" and distinguishes this from public charges and taxes imposed by the government. So far I'd have to say my statement is correct.

If you order off of the dollar menu at McDonalds in the USA, and slap an FRN on the counter, they just dont' have the legal right to refuse service and demand Euros.

 

Really. What do you do when silver goes 2x the current price? or even 1/2 the current price. It shoots apart the 1:1 ratio which makes it theorectially acceptable, or does something else happen. This is about as big as a scam as it gets. Really, get a clue stick. Does not the 1000 word essay on the first page which doesn't tell you the fundemental facts of the value of the coins and paper to silver and gold give you a hit of the scam? Or is it the end, blow your socks off offer.

This is scripted from a zillion idiot spams I get for "rolex" watches. This is nothing more than a scam to sell more privately minted non-monetary coins.

Andrew Jackson not withstanding, stick with greenbacks in your 401K. Or just buy gold.

Ruben

 

Yep sure is. So what. All legal tender means is that you have made a legal attempt to settle the obligation. There is no legal requirement that it must be accepted. and that goes for the government as well. THEY don't have to accept them either. BUT since they are legal tender an offering them does constitute a legal attempt to settle a debt, if they are offered and declined you can not be penalized for not having paid the debt. This does NOT mean that you are no longer obligated to pay the debt, but they would not be able to apply interest, or penalties for late payment.

 

Thanks. But I don't think this changes things. Checks, money orders, credit cards, etc... are still cleared through the Federal Reserve system which transacts, ultimately, in Federal Reserve notes. The purpose of the legal tender laws is to make sure this continues. A check drawn on a Federal Reserve System member bank is only redeemable in Federal Reserve notes.

 

Actually they CAN demand Euros. The creditor can specify the form that he wants the payment to be made in, but it should be specified when the debt in incurred not changed after the fact.