Coin stories to tell around a bonfire

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kirispupis, Jan 19, 2022.

  1. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Recently, I couldn't resist picking up this very rare obol. Its attribution is tenuous, but I'm accepting it on the argument that a) Göktürk knows more about ancient coins than I do and b) no one's refuted his attribution.
    Isaura Palaia.jpg
    Isaura Palaia(?), Cilicia
    Silver hemiobol c. 335-325 BCE
    8.1mm 0.294g
    obverse head of Herakles facing slightly left
    reverse facing head of lion, YAYPCOM (or similar) below
    Göktürk p. 150, 86 (Isaura Palaia), SNG Kayhan 1062, SNG Levante -; SNG BnF -
    ex Leu Numismatik web auction 13 (15 Aug 2020)
    ex Roma e-sale 52 (10 Jan 2019)
    ex Forum Ancient Coins

    Interestingly, this coin bounced around a lot before I picked it up. It seems no one wanted it, maybe due to the history?

    Isaura Palaia was an extremely wealthy city that somehow escaped notice for some time. Alexander the Great ignored it along with the rest of Cappadocia in order to tackle more important challenges. After his death, though, Perdikkas decided it was time to subjugate the region.

    First up was Laranda.

    Laranda.jpg
    Lycaonia. Laranda
    AR Obol 324/3 BCE
    9.67mm .52 grams
    Obverse: Facing head of Herakles, with club over shoulder, H to left
    Reverse: Forepart of wolf right; star above
    Göktürk 68–9
    Ex Marc Breitsprecher

    As detailed by Diodorus Siculus, Perdikkas massacred all men, sold the women and children into slavery, then leveled the city.

    In my reading, this was a portent of things to come. Alexander had always attempted to come to peaceful arrangements with cities. If they submitted to him, he mostly left them alone. Those that resisted strongly he made examples of. Perdikkas' treatment of Laranda was certainly noticed by his next target, Isaura.

    Isaura, being a wealthier city, gave a stauncher resistance, but Perdikkas' forces were overwhelming and they knew they stood no chance. So, one night they shoved all their treasures in their houses, shut them up with their women and children, and lit them on fire.

    When Perdikkas' troops rushed to put out the fire, they were stunned to still find the men on the walls fighting back. Perdikkas was completely perplexed, but seeing that the whole matter was pointless, he just pulled his men back and let the city burn.

    The next day, the men escaped to a nearby hill. Meanwhile, Perdikkas' troops scavenged the ruins and found tremendous amounts of silver and gold. They were melted, but otherwise fine.

    When I first read about this affair, I felt the Isaura Palaians were morons.
    a) If there was an escape route, couldn't they have taken their women and children with them?
    b) If their goal was to prevent Perdikkas from looting their treasures, the plan absolutely failed.

    I still feel their plan had significant flaws, but Perdikkas had forced their hand. His treatment of Laranda allowed no negotiations. That same attitude from Perdikkas is likely why he lasted a scant two years before he was murdered by his own troops.

    FWIW, here's my Perdikkas tet.
    perdikkas.jpg
    Kingdom of Macedon, Philip III Arrhidaios AR Tetradrachm
    In the name and types of Alexander III
    Struck under Menes, with Perdikkas as regent
    Tyre, dated RY 29 of Azemilkos = 321/0 BC
    Head of Herakles to right, wearing lion skin headdress / Zeus Aëtophoros seated to left, holding sceptre; ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ to right, -|O (Phoenician 'K = 'Ozmilk [king of Tyre]) above ||| ||| =/||| (Phoenician date [29]) in left field.
    Price 3275 (Ake); Newell, Dated 32 (same); DCA 737; HGC 3.1, 941 (Alexander IV). 17.03g, 26mm, 6h.
    Ex Roma

    Personally, I feel this photo of a goose I took recently sums it up.
    goose.jpg

    Interestingly, Laranda obols are obscenely common. After Kyzikos they may be the most common obols around. They're all attributed to 324/323 BCE, and I wonder what possessed them to mint so many.

    Contrast that to Isaura Palaia - and the coins are extremely rare. Small denominations tended to remain local, so it would make sense that the majority of Isaura coins perished in the fire.

    Feel free to post your own coins from similarly weird moments in history.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  3. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    Is there teeth on that gooses tongue ? wow...
     
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  4. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Little dinosaur!
     
  5. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    Literally doesn't make any sense! why would the men kill their own family? Is to save their 'honour' by not giving the enemies a chance to enslave them?
    Also as you said, if the men were escaping why wouldn't they just take their families with them before even putting up a fight, or at least why didn't they take all the gold and silver with them on their way out?
     
  6. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Presumably some of the logic was: rather than let our wives and kids become slaves, let's kill them

    Of course, keep in mind that Perdikkas killed all the men of Laranda, so as far as the men were concerned, this was an improvement.

    A far better solution IMHO would have been:
    - Keep women and children out of the houses
    - Take whatever money you can fit in your pockets
    - Light the city on fire
    - When Perdikkas' troops approached, fight back
    - When his troops withdraw, sneak everyone away

    But, nevertheless, this is what happened. Maybe the wives and kids were annoying their husbands...It also wouldn't be the first time in history that a crowd of people did something stupid.
     
  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Most importantly, INSANE timing on your goose shot! Beautiful, just beautiful:artist:... and hilarious:hilarious:
    And, I believe I speak for many an ancient collector here, man O' man I wish Cilicia had gotten their stuff together:banghead:
    They have so much dope coinage that, unfortunately, we know little about.
    though this ain't one of em. It's just my favorite from there :cigar::
    IMG_4054(1).JPG
    CILICIA, Mint Uncertain
    400-350 BC. Obol (Silver, 10 mm, 0.58 g, 1 h). Female head facing, turned slightly to left, wearing earrings, necklace and flowing hair (Arethusa?). Rev. Facing head of Bes. Göktürk 44. SNG Levante 233. SNG France 486. Fine metal and attractive on both sides. Very fine.
    Ex: Leu auction 4 Ex: Nomos Obolos 14

    ... and then this coin bomb that showed up 3 times inexplicably:
    share4912640179344803899.png
    Samaria AR Obol. c. 375-333. Galley l., over waves / Persian king battling lion; O between; all within incuse square. Cf. Meshorer- Qedar 22, 199-201. 0.90g, 9mm, 6h. Toned, good VFCondition: Very Fine Ex: Zeus

    Rad Laranda :wideyed:
    I'm used to these:
    IMG_4213.jpg
    Lycaonia. Laranda
    324-323 BC.
    Obol AR 10mm., 0,67g.Baaltars seated left, holding grain ear, grape bunch, and sceptre / Forepart of wolf right; inverted crescent above; all within circular border of pellets.nearly very fine Göktürk 82; SNG BN 443 (Cilicia); SNG Levante 223 (Cilicia).

    share4912640179344803899.png share4912640179344803899.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    There would have been no expectation of the enemy withdrawal and probably not the survival of the treasures when the decision was made. As it is, destroying the city and removal of the potential slaves probably caused the withdrawal which would not have happened had the extreme measures not occurred. I doubt that the men expected to be able to sneak out in the beginning but saw the opportunity and took it.
     
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  9. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Nice coins! I don't recognize the first one. Do we know who minted it?

    The second looks like Samaria. I recently picked up a coin from there.
    Samaria.jpg
    Samaria 'Middle Levantine' Series. Circa 375-333 BCE
    AR Obol 9.7mm 0.65g
    Phoenician galley left ('b' in Phoenician) above, waves below.
    R: Persian king or hero, holding dagger in his right hand, standing right, grasping lion standing right, head to left, at mane; in field, O; all within incuse square.
    Meshorer & Qedar 199
    Ex Ars Coin Wien​


    Samaria pulled off their own boneheaded move, when they killed the small garrison Alexander left there. Alexander, of course, turned around and demolished the city. Of them, roughly 300 high-born families retreated to a cave. Alexander's soldiers just lit a fire at the front and asphyxiated them all. Their bodies and everything they brought to the cave was only uncovered ~60 years ago and was a fascinating find.
     
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  10. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Are you inferring that my wild conjectures about an event that I read from someone who himself wrote about it ~300 years after it occurred may be missing important details?
     
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  11. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...uh, yeah :smug:
     
  12. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    giphy-23.gif

    I accidently must've brushed that 2nd coin when grabbing the two mentioned coins. No idea why it appears to have shown up in triplicate. Great coin of yours though and thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  13. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    I got that. I was wondering who the ancient "Mr. T" is.
     
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  14. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Bes guest starting as Mr T!!!:hilarious:
    mr-t-mad.gif
    CILICIA, Mint Uncertain
    400-350 BC. Obol (Silver, 10 mm, 0.58 g, 1 h). Female head facing, turned slightly to left, wearing earrings, necklace and flowing hair (Arethusa?). Rev. Facing head of Bes. Göktürk 44. SNG Levante 233. SNG France 486. Fine metal and attractive on both sides. Very fine.
    Ex: Leu auction 4 Ex: Nomos Obolos 14

    *adding identifications to previous post now
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  15. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..the least expensive way to have 3 times as many coins:smuggrin:
     
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